kronicus

ok for the last 3 days i have re-searched my ass off and folowed all flow charts and reconditiong specs i could find beside that i think the root cause of my problem is a little different than the other well known ones

heres the issiue

surging
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taQ6Ao4RGmw

spec checking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-9T-e4OVpU

and runing the car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVj-uVhmp3U

its a 95 prelude h22a1 obd1 the car is not rigged or swaped or anything oem ecu its all legit

just had the motor built its skunk 2 stage 1 cams with type s pistions
skunk 2 valves-spring-retainers-gears
the kaizen speed eliminator is on there as well as the h22-h23 manual tensioner conversion aluminum flywhele and a ralco rz underdrive pulley kit
the last thing i can think of is the walboro 225lph pump i put in
everything above was changed all at once so.....

ive got all the lil gremlins worked out only thing is the car is throwing ONLY a knock sensor code
i borrowed my friends knock sensor and stuck it on code went away but did not fix the problem
ive swaped map-iac-egr-injectors-ecu with my friends prelude it does not change state problem is consistant
i bled the crap out of the coolant to...

there are 3 main questions i have
is anyone here familiar with the "minium air adjustment" adjustment performed at the factory and every time motor dynamics perpherials or replcements happen goes.
something like unplug all sensors that influence idle o2 map iac etc etc and set the idle adjust scrue under the throttlebody so that it idles solid at around 400-600rpm's?

2 does anyone have a pic diagram or well detailed explanation of how the coolant lines route from the thermostat housing to the iac to the tb and back to the thermostat housing as i cant find that in ANY online service manual....

3 if i have changed fuel pressure, timing, gas i should have been able to alter the state of this idle problem slightly....i cant change state in it.

the only thing i have not done is hooked up a vaccume gauge, however the intake manafold was not disasembled or modified in any way just cleaned with sum carb cleaner and a air hose...

this car had zero error codes before and idled perfectly

i have "now" seen a un-confirmable, questionable change in the idle dealing with water pressure that i have not been able to re-create "i,e, i was bleeding the coolant and forgot to scrue on the rad cap, **** was overflowing, the second i scrued it on, it gained pressure **** started up again.

again only error code is knock sensor.....
no visable or otherwise vaccume leaks
no fuel leaks and a constant controlable level
replaced the 02 a few months before rebuilding the motor...

any help is apericated greatly appericated
-dave

dudefromaz

If the idle goes up and down repeatedly, it would be a tps problem or a vacuum hose/intake manifold leak. From the video it definitely sounds like a leak, If the throttle body was removed when doing the, i would check the gasket/seals on most of the parts, dont forget the vaccum line that goes to the iab and to the egr valve im uploading my prelude service manual for you if you still need diagrams and stuff... 1 hour to go...

rpwolf

check for vacuum leak
check the AICV
check the FITV
bleed your coolant lines
clean your throttle body

sometimes codes wont pop up immediately for these kinds of things. try to torque everything to spec and make sure your hoses are all on and tight (I see some hoses not properly connected)

dudefromaz

honda prelude service manual

here the link for all models guides kinda big, but it has it all

red92si

You do have to make sure to let all the air bubble out of the radiator and cooling system when you fill it up or have it changed. Helms just instructs to run the car to operating temp with the cap off and let the bubbles make there way out. The last time I replaced my radiator this bubble process took a good 20 minutes or so.

And as said before... making sure your IACV screen is clean and that there is no problems with the FITV and those coolant and vacuum lines associated with those systems is key to solving the bouncy idle. I think we all get the bouncy idle at some point during Prelude ownership.

__________________

Tyler

kronicus

dudefromaz thank you for the manual it is appericated like you dont even understand.
the throttlebody was not removed at any point but will not go unchecked

rp wolf ive done all of the above maybe i didnt bleed coolant long enough i have an iea though.....btw what hoses are routed inccoretly?
thanks in advance-

red92si can you detail for detail go over the bleeding proces with my to verify i was doing this correctly....

red92si

When I replaced my radiator I did not do a complete system flush, so I did not bleed the coolant from any other lines than the main radiator hoses. I just replaced the radiator, filled with coolant and waited for those bubbles to stop surfacing. Then I started the car and let it sit at idle until it came to temp, at which point the thermostat opened and I had to add a bit more coolant to the radiator to top it off. Then I waited with the car running for any more bubbles to surface. Then put on the cap and call it a day.

__________________

Tyler

mpobrien

sounds like your high idle control valve is stuck.....there should be 2 screws on the bottom of it if u open it up there is a diaphragm you should be able to screw it in and out.it kinda works like a thermostat. if you screw it in that should solve the problem but dont go to far cause that will drop your cold idle to low

kronicus

thank you so much im going to do it right now

rpwolf

check your IAC and FITV for Continuity, thats the real way to find out if they are working.
Oh and I thought I saw some that were not pushed in all the way and stuff, didnt really spend too much time on the video because that surging idle was a nightmare for a while for me and didnt want to hear it lol sorry. good luck.

kronicus

ok upon going in to check the valve i noticed a vaccume line that looked kinked that was runing to the box under the manafold or what controls the above mentioned valve
i studdied the schematic one more time and found the vacume lines to above named componet and the box under the intake were routed a lil wrong, i just fixed it and as i speak the car "seems" to be idling correctly
sometimes it takes a while for this iddle troll to kick in but it already sounds better
ill report back in a few......

kronicus

we finally just pulled the laptop into the garage for this one

i just provoked the problem by steping on the break pedal
then release and it smmothed out, so i flipped around the one way check valve and shure enough no power breaks so it was on there right
im running it with the one way check valve backwards right now to test it so far just a tiny high idle no surging
maybe my brake booster is leaking.......
the only other one way check valve on the system i can think of or see is the pcv valve basily
the lil black box that goes under the stock air intake was removed by the previous owner another road to walk down..........
it worked fine without it for months tho.....will report back soon im open to solutions tho....

btw the fast idle above mentioned valve is working correctly i think as when the car shuts down it flips backwards and when it starts it flips the other way.....

kronicus

3 rad fan cycles so far and so far and no idle problem with the brake booster bypassed

dare i drive it just to verify

you might say but thats how i roll

will report back

kronicus

nope problem came back as soon as i cracked the throttle to back it up

now i shut her down and hooked the brake booster line up correctly and right away it started all stupid when it did i reached down and messed with the high idle control valve i pressed it back counter clockwise as when the motor starts it spins and stops all the way clockwise

for note when you rev it up the valves position does not change......

edit*
well this is interesting i went to mc donalds for some food right and un-intenitionally set the idle (cable side adjustment) a lil to high it high idled at around 1800 the whoel way there, then after we got food i droped the cable adjustment down a little and the thing started running all stupid again and started smoking what smelt like oil from below the alternator area, there was a small breeze it could have come from anywhare
and it did not stupid idle again, so far

kronicus

so i did let it set and idle for a while did not get stupid with the cable side adjusment set to low it eventually bogged and died
pulled the error codes again it threw 43 again "fuel supply system"
i thought i had this fixed when i torqued down the leaking fuel line
and its still throwing knock sensor but i already know thats not the problem

i think the soloution is going to come from these core factors
something water influnced
somehing vaccume regulated or monitored
something overlooked completly
also in these core clues....
""i just provoked the problem by steping on the break pedal
then release and it smmothed out at some point after doing this a few times the car dosent care and it will do it anyway""

""started it up right away it started all stupid when it did i reached down and messed with the high idle control valve i pressed it back counter clockwise as when the motor starts it spins and stops all the way clockwise, when i did that it stopped and ran normal then started back up and didnt care what i did at that point""



i think im going to touch the scrue underneath the throttlebody tomorow and bump the idle a little bit theres a reason why that scrue is not only jam nut locked but its also glued in place and very hard to acess....

still looking for advice on the "minium idle adjustment"

im going to start reading the service manual page to page

dudefromaz

For whats it worth, I bought a p28 a while ago and finally got around to soldering a chip on the board(chrome almost stock maps and such) and just installed it. Wow made such a difference in acceleration/idle/other stuff. 80bux, not bad for a chip and ecu... GL I'm sure you'll fix your problem. BTW my old engine has ****ty mounts on it so whenever i would rev it up or drive, the engine would rock a little bit causing the vaccum lines to freak out... I know what your feeling man

kronicus

show me where to get that p28 ecu

explane a little more on the instal-chip process the pros and cons and what not

im pretty shure i have a p13 on my 95 h22a1 obd1 prelude will it just plug and play? (still kinda new to hondas)

still looking for the minium air adjustment procedure....

btw my mounts have manhandler inserts the motor wont move at all and im still not feeling the kaizen speed balancer shaft eliminator added vibrations (for anyone thinking about it) its the best $125 i ever spent

kronicus

i FOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNND IT
prelude minimum idle air adjustment - Google Search SECOND SELECTION OPTION

I GUESS EVERYTHING ISISNT POSTED AS PRELUDE SOMETIMES, in this case accord.
and you dont need to unhook a whole bunch of crap just the iac harnes BUT
i dont know what rpm's i need to target so once again im asking for help

if anyone out there can help me go to your warmed up h22a1 with a p13 ecu and unhook the harness to your iac and see where it idles at with as specific of a rpm value as possible so i can try and target that.
also please post your elevation and a guess at outside temp.
google could help if you dont know
thanks in advance-

kronicus

so i performed the adjustment and it did little good if at all BUT i found the question that will bring the answer

when im in the car and it starts the stupid idle if i kick on the ac it will recover and dile correctly within a few more surges ususaly 7-8 or less sometimes immedialy

if i just leave the ac on it wont happen as much and when it does it will revocer quickly

the car does have the ralco rz underdrive pulley set and its pretty underdriven!!!

first thing i did was test the power output of the car and on idle when it does stay consistant it outputs a very low 13v to a high 12 at inital statup
if you rev it the highest it goes is maybe 13.20
the alternator worked fine before i really doubt it just went out....
shouldent it be closer to 14v all the time......

my only other thought is.....what is bypassed or re-calibrated having to do with the idle system when the ac is engaged and no its not just the blower motor the compressor needs to be engaged

kronicus

well im 95 percent shure i fixed the honda virus
the problem was that there is a small scrue hole to the left of the charcoal canister hookup on the tb, there is a scrue that goes into there and is a kind of secondary idle adjustemnt....
well my hole was plugged up with jb weld from the ricer i bought the car from


i located a sutiuable scrue and put it in there and i had the idle adjusted and functioning perfectly in like 2 minuts

the only question now is how it will work on a cold start which were going to find out real soon

i did confirm that the underdrive pulley set is greatly underpowering the car is starting to shut down the tach and stuff when idling for a long time espicaly with the light on and the fan is not spining fast enough so.......ill save that for another thread