Possible Engine Plans... need opinions - Honda Prelude Forum

red92si · 12-04-2002, 11:12 PM

I have been thinking about the route I would like to go as far as engine building for awhile now. I have up until recently been planning to turbo my H23, but reading all the "Engine go Boom" stories on the FI forum, I am more interested in going the NA route. Here is a little list I compiled on things I would do to start off...

Prelude Type-S Pistons .25mm overbore
Shotpeen stock H23 rods (my dads friend has a shotpeener so this would be free)
Stainless Valves with Titanium Retainers

As for future additions (over next summer when I have job income):
Lightened Flywheel
P&P with Cylinder Head milled (dont know to what specs.. advice welcome)
AEM Pullies
Cam Gears

Its either start going this route or put on a low boost (5-7psi) turbo setup for next summer. I just want to hear some opinions on this.

SLICK96 · 12-04-2002, 11:18 PM

Have you researched the F-Max turbo kit much? I think it's a pretty safe option for the levels of boosting you mentioned. I agree w/ you that you just can't win w/ turbo, unless you have ungodly amounts of money, extra engines laying around, and endless amounts of time to tow your Lude all over the place. The N/A route is appealing to me, now, as well. In a year, or however soon I can pay my debts off, I'll be heavily considering an F-Max kit, or one from RevHard.

J

red92si · 12-04-2002, 11:33 PM

The thing that keeps me from turbo is once I go turbo I will have a low boost setup. I will be happy for awhile, but at some point I will want to up the boost. That will require money I dont have to invest in sleeving, forged pistons, and standalone ECU.

I figure with the NA route I could start building, and then If I crave some more power I could do an H22 head swap. To me, NA seems to be more of a safe route with less power potential, but less of a chance of blowing something up.

SLICK96 · 12-04-2002, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by red92si
The thing that keeps me from turbo is once I go turbo I will have a low boost setup. I will be happy for awhile, but at some point I will want to up the boost. That will require money I dont have to invest in sleeving, forged pistons, and standalone ECU.

I figure with the NA route I could start building, and then If I crave some more power I could do an H22 head swap. To me, NA seems to be more of a safe route with less power potential, but less of a chance of blowing something up.

That is true. Everybody says that once you get used to a certain level of boost, you always want more. I just wanted to stay around 5-7 psi for daily driving, and MAX 10 psi for street drags and pulls on a dyno. The JDM H22 swap is very enticing, but it seems just as many people have wiring/electric/fuel problems w/ their JDMs as do people w/ boost. The H23 VTEC hybrid is nice, but has just as much potential to be screwed up as everything else, ya know? What to do...I guess I'd just need to find a competent shop in SoCal, when I move back out there in about 7 weeks, to be able to do a swap w/o f@cking it up.

J

MidNKight-lude · 12-04-2002, 11:44 PM

i know a guy that got like close to 180 to the wheel, goin NA, as far as if it true i am unsure. He had I/h/e, flywheel, regrind cams, port and polish, cam gear, and tune engine. as far as if those numbering coming form those mod it is unsure, but they do look good

Forbidden · 12-05-2002, 10:20 AM

You're planning to put Type S pistons in a H23? I've never been able to get an answer to this yet so I did some research of my own.

First here's some number we'll use for this math session,

H22 has 90.7mm stroke and 143mm rod length
H23 has 95mm stroke and 141.5mm rod length

so the distance from the center of the crank to the center of the wrist pin would be:

stroke/2 + rod length

for the H22 it would be 90.7 / 2 + 143 = 188.35mm
for the H23 it would be 95 / 2 + 141.5 = 189mm

so this means that the piston height is different between the H22 and H23 pistons

and since H22 has a lower distance between the center of the crank to thecenter of the wrist pin that means that the H22 pistons are higher than the H23 ones so that would mean that using H22 pistons in a H23 would make the pistons come closer to the head so it would be either higher compression or hitting the valves...

red92si · 12-05-2002, 10:26 AM

Any H22 piston can be used in an H23. They both have the same bore, and if they are oversized, then I dont mind having the block bored out .25mm (I would get a tad more displacement). If the pistons would end up giving more compression due to the different height, then great... I can live with that. If it turns out the pistons will hit the valves, I will have to add a thicker headgasket to cure that problem.

As far as I have heard from alot of people, the piston swap if no big deal. Its a pretty good alternative to forged pistons for the H23 if someone wants to go NA.

Satan_SRV · 12-05-2002, 10:39 AM

Type-S pistons in an H23 will give you much higher than 11:1 CR because it has a smaller combustion chamber.

You might want to look into valve clearance...and if you mill the head that could make it worse and then what compression would you be running? 12.5?13?

MidNKight-lude · 12-05-2002, 11:12 AM

my question is, what headwork does the h23 have that we can do. Beside port and Polish, what values, spring and retainners woudl we use to put in the h23 head. Since ther is no aftermartket suport for the h23 head aka crowlers, ferra, who's values spring and retainner would we have to used??

red92si · 12-05-2002, 12:46 PM

www.inlinefour.com

They have a couple head pieces for H23's...

Stainless Valves
Titanium Retainers
Stiffened Inner Springs

irishpilot · 12-05-2002, 04:54 PM

Does anyone know for sure though if the type S pistons would work?? And if so how would the block need to be prepared? and would H22 or H23 rods be used? and is the crank unaffected? With the extra displacment and higher CR it would be a fun engine to drive. ALso would it raise the redline of the H23a if that head was used?? considering a stiffer valve train was used.

red92si · 12-05-2002, 05:30 PM

The H23 rods can be used with the TypeS pistons. I would be getting my stock rods shotpeened to increase their strength by my dads friend.

nuro · 12-05-2002, 05:46 PM

i think NA is cool. for many, many reasons i'm going the same route but i'm also gonna spray

Satan_SRV · 12-05-2002, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by red92si
The H23 rods can be used with the TypeS pistons. I would be getting my stock rods shotpeened to increase their strength by my dads friend.

You just have to modify them for the floating wrist pin, like i had to do to my H23 rods with the Arias pistons.

Hey can your dad's friend shotpeen my F20B rods?? Dude I'll send them to you, pay for shipping back and forth...everything..

red92si · 12-05-2002, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Satan_SRV
Can your dad's friend shotpeen my F20B rods?? Dude I'll send them to you, pay for shipping back and forth...everything..

I will ask my dad to ask him if he has any time. He is a really busy Porsche mechanic, and engine builder. My dad had his wiper arms shotpeened, and then clearcoated to give them that raw metal look.

Preyluder · 12-05-2002, 09:04 PM

What're you gonna do to the cams? Are you keeping them factory spec? I suggest you at least get the reground to matter match the demensions of the virtually new motor.

I'm gonna get a JDM h22 from Osaka motors, build it up, then put a healthy shot of nitrous. While I have the h23 motor out of the car, I'm gonna turbo-prep it. It'll be my drag motor.

red92si · 12-06-2002, 04:07 PM

I planned on keeping the cams factory spec. but getting cam gears to tune them accordingly. I just got an email back from InlineFour, and they quoted me $140 to bore and hone my H23, plus another $380 for the TypeS pistons+rings.

brendon2k · 12-06-2002, 05:02 PM

my engine plan is sr20det. this combined with a few mods should give me a well balanced rwd car with about 250whp and 50/50 weight distribution that would tip the scales at about 2600lbs. this is all in a 240 of course.

DrSeus · 12-06-2002, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by red92si
start off...

Prelude Type-S Pistons .25mm overbore
Shotpeen stock H23 rods (my dads friend has a shotpeener so this would be free)
Stainless Valves with Titanium Retainers

As for future additions (over next summer when I have job income):
Lightened Flywheel
P&P with Cylinder Head milled (dont know to what specs.. advice welcome)
AEM Pullies
Cam Gears

I'm pretty new to this but wouldn't it make more sense to do any tranny stuff while the block is out. Once the engine is out it's pretty much cake to install a flywheel, right? Assuming you have the cash. This way you won't have to deal with dropping the tranny on round 2 of your mod's.

irishpilot · 12-06-2002, 07:29 PM

brendon2k: I like that mix especially when it has real JDM body and silvia head lights!!!