Originally posted by spite I'd get the Bimmer, since it's the only car on your list with a manual tranny. Auto transmissions take the fun even out of a Supra TT.
However, you can (and I would) wait to see if Honda releases a 5 speed manual for the CL Type S.
Actually, the IS300 is not to far off... their supposed to release a 5spd for the '02 model, with 18's on it.
My friend had a deposit down on an '01 solar yellow IS300, he took it back and put a deposit on a 330i sedan 5spd with the sports package, and m3 wheels.
Before you go and sell your lude, just remember that if you order a 330, you're on a 3 month waiting list. Unless you pick it up off the showroom.
You also can not go wrong with Honda quality, and a 250hp Mugen (body kit and exhaust) TL-S.
the beamer seamed too plane for me, it was blah. the, interior waz butt ugly with it's orange gauges. The IS 300 had suede seats, polished steal all over, with grip peadala, a dead rest and matching polished steel door sills, I know it is an auto, but it does have that cool triptronic tranny, with shifter buttons on the steering wheel
umm i think an M3 is a little out of his price range if hes debating between these 3 cars. id go with the IS 300 but i would wait for the manual but it would be nice if they gave it a 6speed. now that would be sweet
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AKA 93PreludeSI2.3 (On SHO)
1993 Black Prelude SI
2.3L DOHC 5-Speed
-AEM CAI
-Greddy Power Extreme
They are going to give the IS300 a 6spd manual if i'm not mistaken. Personally i would go with the 330ci with a manual or wait for the IS300 manual, but ulimately i think i would get the 330ci. The 330ci looks incredibly sweet and you can't beat BMW ride/build/feel quality. The IS300 looks like a expensive riced out Honda Civic Sedan, but in a way is still definitely nice. Tough choice...
Originally posted by gills and you can't beat BMW ride/build/feel quality.
gills
I agree with you on that one. Except the part about the build quality. Bimmers are known for having notoriously troublesome electrical systems. So do most non-japanese cars when you compare them to Japanese cars, esp Toyotas and Hondas. Numerous friends with bmw's have gone through so much crap with their cars, esp in terms of electrical problems.
Case in point, a friend just bought a 325, she has taken it to the dealer 7X already(all unscheduled) and she's had the car for 3months!
1.They can't figure out why the CE light keeps coming on.
2.The car would crank away for about 10 sec b4 finally turning over.
The dealer is still trying to figure all this out.
I was really thinking about springing for a 3 series. They are SOLID cars. But as much as I like FUN cars that are engineered with the driver in mind, I HATE cars that have reliability issues.
With the TL-s or the IS300, you won't have to worry about reliability, PERIOD. But you won't get the Bavarian engineering either. Always a compromise.
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I'M ON MY THIRD PRELUDE!!!
1.93' Prelude Si w/ sh*t load of mods - Got Stolen in 96', found in East Los Angeles with nothing
2.97' Prelude Typesh w/ a few mods - Got Hit in 99', severe front end damage
3.93' Prelude VTEC w/ a few mods - What I Got Now and I am keeping this one! (knock on wood)
Last edited by johnsoncranium : 06-29-2001 at 07:42 PM.
that cranium is totally right..
my friends dad has a 99 740i and it wont start every once in a while, so they have to bring it in to the dealership, get charged half the cost of the car to repair it, and then do it all over again the next month. another problem with bimmers is that you CANNOT work on them unless you are a specialist. with hondas you can do so much more.
__________________
AKA 93PreludeSI2.3 (On SHO)
1993 Black Prelude SI
2.3L DOHC 5-Speed
-AEM CAI
-Greddy Power Extreme
Well, not for all bimmers my friends. Friend's dad has a 1985 325es i believe with 180k miles and that thing is going stronger than my father's 1990 Honda Accord with 157k miles. My brother's 318ti has 90k miles and has not had a single problem yet; electrical or mechanical. Still going strong. But i can see where you're coming from. I've heard some horror stories about bavarian electrics. But the build quality is still better than most if not all japanese cars. I'm not talking electrical stuff. I'm talking the way everythings shuts, opens, goes over bumps, resistance to rattles, handles, steering feel, shifting feel, clutch, transmission, brakes, all of it. All of it is the best in a BMW and I will say Lexus is right there behind BMW with all the copying they do
Originally posted by gills But the build quality is still better than most if not all japanese cars. I'm not talking electrical stuff. I'm talking the way everythings shuts, opens, goes over bumps, resistance to rattles, handles, steering feel, shifting feel, clutch, transmission, brakes, all of it. All of it is the best in a BMW and I will say Lexus is right there behind BMW with all the copying they do
Hmm..this is turning into a good debate.
As far as "build" quality overall, including mechanical and electrical, I guess it's all a matter of taste. I mean, Lexuses, Infinitis and upper end Acuras have all been ranking higher in that category under JD Power's surverys, in the "overall satisfaction in the first 90 days". Now, Japanese luxury cars will continue to have provide this satisfaction for years to come, not just during those 90 days.
Lexus, Infiniti and Acura all have been proven to be more reliabe than their German/Euro counterparts since their introduction in the late 80's. Now you have to look at how this reliable factor translates into "build" quality. Like you said, how "everything shuts, opens, goes over bumps, resistance to rattles, handles,...." is all a matter of taste, and NOT an indication of build quality.
Take every single car in the Lexus lineup, (except the IS300, I haven't been in it yet). You are TOTALLY isolated from the road. Almost no noise, no nothing. Some people prefer this. Rattles in a Lexus? Naw.. haven't heard one yet. While my friends's rear quarter panel windows in their 3 series keep clanking away, along with some other rattles and squeaks. Yeah, the 3 series is teh bottom of the BMW's, but a friend with a 540 has similiar problems.
I know some BMW owners whose cars have lil or no problems. But I know more with cars that have frequent, nagging problems. It seems with Euro cars, to be more of a hit or miss thing, getting a car that's gona be problem/trouble free. Whereas with the Japanese luxury brands, you rarely hear about such problems. Actually, I've never heard a Lexus, Infiniti( I only know a few of these) and Acura owner complain of some repetitive problem or any problems at all.
Are these BMW owners happy? Yeah, they are happy. They've accepted the "virtues" of a bimmer and would rather drive the "sportier" lux car than have, lets' say, a LS430. But nope, build quality belongs to the Japanese Luxury car makers at the moment, and it has been that way since Lexus started boating cars over here. And this is simply documented fact in publications like Consumer reports, C&D's long term tests and surveys like JD & Power, all of which are respected in the auto industry.
__________________
I'M ON MY THIRD PRELUDE!!!
1.93' Prelude Si w/ sh*t load of mods - Got Stolen in 96', found in East Los Angeles with nothing
2.97' Prelude Typesh w/ a few mods - Got Hit in 99', severe front end damage
3.93' Prelude VTEC w/ a few mods - What I Got Now and I am keeping this one! (knock on wood)
My neighbour had an LS400 as a company car for two years and only had a brake light bulb blow once. That was the only 'fault' with the car in 100,000 miles..except routine maintenance of course.
what kinda front spoiler is that? Looks nice and clean. Where did you get it?
__________________
I'M ON MY THIRD PRELUDE!!!
1.93' Prelude Si w/ sh*t load of mods - Got Stolen in 96', found in East Los Angeles with nothing
2.97' Prelude Typesh w/ a few mods - Got Hit in 99', severe front end damage
3.93' Prelude VTEC w/ a few mods - What I Got Now and I am keeping this one! (knock on wood)
Well said John. I don't think i can argue all that I'll take a bimmer and a lexus while i'm at it. BMWs always have had the sport advantage and that's why they win most shootouts in car magazines(obviously because most of the editors are sport car enthusiats). But while they have the sport advantage they also have the ride quality of a lexus which is another major contributor to their victories in shootouts. They may not be as reliable but you have to choose what fits you best: sportiness or cruising reliability? Me being more of a sports car fan, i'll lean more toward a BMW. Plus, I think a BMW is a much better looking car than any lexus(besides the IS300). Too each his own compadre.
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