I have been pondering this for a while now and it seems like it could be feasible with the right understanding of how the system works and the creativity to pull it off. I'm wondering if it is possible to:
a) Modify the electronics by means of, say reprogramming/ modifying the 4ws computer.
b) Adjust the tie rods to the rear wheels or fabricate new ones that somehow (use your imagination) increase the distance traveled by the outer edge of the wheel hub.
c) Modify the actuator so that it moves further in and out.
d) Any other method that someone has concocted in their preluding years.
I cant imagine that there is absolutely no way of doing this unless there are physical constraints holding the idea back like rubbing against the inside of the wheel arches. It would be proper wicked if you could have the rear wheels turning at a greater percentage then they do now. Parking would be impossible to beat and handling should be massively improved unless there are issues that I have not yet taken into account. I cant think of any at the moment because forklifts aren't unsafe so it would be like putting the rear end of a forklift on the rear end of a car. But the degree of rear wheel movement would not be anywhere near that of a forklift.
If anyone has any information on doing this or known of anyone who has attempted it could they point me in the direction. It's not a project i would undertake any time soon due to my lack of knowledge/experience in this sort of modification field but definitely something i would enjoy spending the time working on as the benefits would be really satisfying.
a) Modify the electronics by means of, say reprogramming/ modifying the 4ws computer.
Not feasible.
b) Adjust the tie rods to the rear wheels or fabricate new ones that somehow (use your imagination) increase the distance traveled by the outer edge of the wheel hub.
With mechanical modification it is possible, but it's not that simple
c) Modify the actuator so that it moves further in and out.
Again, this is possible, and probably the best way to do it. But, given the extreme limited number of parts, I would not do it.
d) Any other method that someone has concocted in their preluding years.
only way that it would be semi doable is, to move the point where the tie rod end conects closer to the hub, you would have to make sure both sides were exactly the same. it may also become dangerouse to drive because it will kick the back more also for when your on the freeway and it goes the same direction it may then go more than the fronts do
only way that it would be semi doable is, to move the point where the tie rod end conects closer to the hub
Thinking over it again this seems like it would actually be the easiest. I reckon it could be done without modifying the car as well. you could design a bracket which fits the wheel hub but connects to the tie rod closer in. Actually come to think of it you may need to adjust the tie rod length. But that could depend on the size of the bracket. For consistency, even a small engineering workshop will be able to fabricate two identical (but opposite) brackets with CNC equipment.
As for the safety at high speed I see your point that the wheels could then be turning too much in the same direction and make cornering dangerous (would make changing lanes interesting though).
And looking at the HELMS manual I'm also wondering if by making the rear wheel move further would it throw the rear wheel sensor out and cause the system to turn off?
I also think that trying any mechanical modification without recalibrating the computer would be outright dangerous. Honda got it working correctly the way it is, why upset the balance?
Its not really a matter of upsetting the balance Honda has created. Its more an interest in experimenting with the possible handling potential of the car, and maybe creating a more exciting balance. Saying that just because Honda got it right, therefore you shouldn't try and tinker with it is like saying they got the engine right, and you shouldn't modify it. I know they have done a good job tuning the engine right from the factory but that hasn't stopped people changing parts that could possibly make the car hazardous.
What i'm trying to say is that you can make any car handle better with better tires/brakes/suspension but not all cars have 4ws. The prelude could have the potential to surpass all sorts of cars if there was a way to make the rear wheels work more to your advantage (seeing as they don't do much else, lazy rear wheels in a front wheel drive car). Essentially exploiting the 4ws mechanism.
I also think that trying any mechanical modification without recalibrating the computer would be outright dangerous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dugman
Its not really a matter of upsetting the balance Honda has created. Its more an interest in experimenting with the possible handling potential of the car, and maybe creating a more exciting balance. Saying that just because Honda got it right, therefore you shouldn't try and tinker with it is like saying they got the engine right, and you shouldn't modify it. I know they have done a good job tuning the engine right from the factory but that hasn't stopped people changing parts that could possibly make the car hazardous.
Read what I said. Its like going with a bigger cam without a tune - you've got potential to make more power, but the stock tune won't allow it. And yes, with handling its about BALANCE.
Modifying your engine and grenading it is one thing, fooling around with 4ws and causing a wreck on the highway is another. Honda got everything safely working with extensive testing, which I doubt you would correctly perform. The rear wheels will move X degrees when the steering wheel is turned at N speed at Y angle and the car is moving at Z speed.
Get a Helms and rear up on the 4ws section. Its going to show you all the fail safes that Honda threw in there which you would need to bypass. Unless you have a way to safely improve upon the 4WS system and actually prove that what you did is beneficial, I wouldn't do it.
I see your point G Loc. I guess I saw it more as an experiment to attempt to make the 4ws better/different and didn't really take into account what could really go wrong, more what could go right. And the things that could go wrong will most likely outway any benefits you could get without seriously modifying the system.
I guess I was more interested in the counter steering part of the system which is normally under 30kph. Essentially what I thought would be ideal would be a larger counter-steer angle at low speed for insane parking. At higher speeds i thought it would be better for counter-steer around corners but for lane changes keep it the same. Any thoughts? Obviously Honda does have a reason for their setup.
In a nutshell what i'm imagining is a third gen setup... but with a larger angle at full lock. Maybe electronic but the computer could have an exponential function for the rear wheel angle. So a hybrid of 3rd gen and 4th gen, with a bit more advanced programming?
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