Having all the necessary parts and tools on hand before starting will make your life much easier, as will having a second vehicle to run to the parts store if needed. This is by no means intended to be a comprehensive technical instruction manual, and user assumes all liability and risk.
Inspect the wheel bearings on all your 5-lug parts, and if anything is loose or suspected to be bad replace it NOW. Dropping the front knuckles off at a shop to have the bearings pressed is much easier, cheaper, and faster than having them do it once on the car.
Parts Needed:
- 5th generation NON-SH front knuckles with hub assemblies
- 5th generation rear spindles with hub assemblies (entire knuckle NOT needed)
- 4th generation VTEC front calipers/brackets or 5th generation front calipers/brackets. *NOT needed if your 4th generation vehicle is a VTEC*
- 5th generation or 4th generation VTEC front brake pads
- Any 4th or 5th generation rear brake pads.
- 5th generation front and rear rotors
- 4 more lug nuts
- 5-lug wheels/tires of choice
- 2 large flat washers
- 2 new front wheel bearings (optional)
Tools Needed:
- 3/8� drive rachet and metric sockets (10, 14, 17, 19 should be all you need)
- ½� drive flex handle
- 36 mm axle socket
- Leverage-enhancing pipe of your choice.
- SMALL pitman arm puller or your ball joint removal tool of choice.
- Assorted basic hand tools including hammer, pliers, screwdrivers, pry bar, etc, etc
- HELMS MANUAL *just buy one*
I was surprised how easy the rears went. Each side took less than an hour, working by myself with no air tools. It’s a very straightforward process with few chances to muck something up.
1. Jack up the rear of the vehicle and properly support with jackstands, and remove the rear wheel. Block the 3 remaining wheels . . . you will need to release the parking brake for the rears.
2. Spray the caliper bolts, caliper bracket bolts, and the spindle mounting nuts with a penetrating type lubricant (PB Blaster, etc), then go get lunch or something to drink.
3. Remove the two brake caliper mounting bolts.
4. Pull the rear caliper off and support to relieve stress on the brake line.
5. Don’t bother removing the rotor screws or rotor, just leave it attached to the spindle assembly.
6. Remove the rear brake pads and retaining clips and place them in a clean plastic bag, unless you will be using new pads.
7. Remove the two caliper bracket mounting bolts (usually quite tight). Don’t loose the bolts. If you can’t get them off, they can be removed once the spindle is off the car, but unless you have a large bench vise it’s usually easier to remove them whilst the spindle is still on.
8. Remove the 4 spindle mounting nuts from the backside of the knuckle. You may need a short extension to get to one or two of them.
9. Tap the spindle mounting studs with a hammer to separate the spindle from the rear knuckle:
Comparison of 5th gen and 4th gen spindle/rotor assemblies. I trimmed the bottom of my 5g splash shields because they were kinda mangled when I got them from the junk yard. You can see the spindle studs have the same lengths and locations, making this a bolt-on affair.
Install the 5g rear spindle following the reverse procedure outlined above. Remember to install the rotor onto the hub BEFORE you bolt up the caliper bracket. You will likely have to retract the piston to fit it over new pads/rotors (the rear pistons must be rotated to retract them, not compressed like the fronts). When you are all done, you should have something like this:
The fronts are a more involved process than the rears, especially if you don’t already have a VTEC sized calipers. There are also more chances to run into problems (namely, removing the axle nuts and ball joints).
1. Jack up the front of the vehicle and properly support with jackstands, and remove the front wheel. Block the 3 remaining wheels.
2. Spray the axle nut, caliper bolts, caliper bracket bolts, and the 3 castle nuts on the ball joints with penetrating lubricant and go get something to drink.
3. Using a flat punch or screwdriver, unstake the axle nut from the axle shaft.
4. Insert a beefy screwdriver or ¼� drive extension (I used part of a broken screwdriver I had laying around) into the cooling fins on the brake rotor to prevent the axle from rotating when try and remove the axle nut. The picture below is the drivers side, obviously the passenger side would need to have the part inserted from the bottom. If you have a friend helping you, have them hold the brakes as well:
5. Get out your 36mm axle socket, flex handle, and “leverage-amplification device� and remove the axle nut:
6. Remove the two 10 mm bolts holding the brake line to the knuckle:
7. Remove the two 10 mm bolts that hold in the “knuckle protector� which covers the upper ball joint.
8. Remove the two caliper mounting bolts, then pull off the caliper, pads, and mounting clips. Support the caliper to remove stress from the brake line.
9. Remove the two caliper bracket bolts. I only had to do this because I needed the bolts for the new brackets. If your new brackets or knuckles came with the bolts, you can skip this step. If you already have VTEC calipers, you NEED to do this step.
10. Remove the cotter pins from the upper ball joint, lower ball joint, and steering arm link, then remove the castle nuts.
11. There are several ways to pop the ball joints loose, some more barbaric than others. I prefer using a small pitman arm separator, available from most auto parts stores for ~$9. They sell two different sizes, you will need the smaller one:
12. Remove the joint on the steering arm link first. Thread the castle nut back on UPSIDE down until the threads are just below the lower nut surface. Position the pitman arm puller as shown:
A 3/8� drive rachet will fit directly into the screw on the pitman arm puller, or you can use a large wrench:
Tighten the screw down until the ball joint pops loose, then remove the castle nut and disconnect the steering arm link
13. Follow the same procedure as the steeing arm link to remove the upper ball joint, then the lower ball joint.
14. Use a deadblow hammer and screwdriver to remove the axle splines from the knuckle, then remove the entire knuckle assembly with rotor attached:
Comparison of 4th gen (left) and 5th gen (right) knuckles (4th gen knuckle still has caliper bracket attached):
15. Clean the axle spines with a wire brush and some penetrating lube to ease reinstallation. Install the lower ball joint without tightening the castle nut, and slide the axle splines through the knuckle. DO NOT pound on the hub with a hammer to get the axle through the knuckle, you can damage the wheel bearing. Once you get the threaded portion of the axle through, you can install the axle nut and tighten it to “pull� the axle through the hub. Then REMOVE THE AXLE NUT again (see below).
16. Reattach the remaining to ball joints, tighten the castle nuts, and install new cotter pins.
The dimensions and geometry of the 5th generation knuckles means that the axle extends farther through the knuckle than it does on the stock 4th generation knuckle. As a consequence, the axle nut will run out of threads just before fully seating on the hub face. If you drive the car without correcting this problem, you will eat through wheel bearings pretty quickly (@ about $80 each, plus labor).
Here you can see the axle extending through the hub, without any washer or nut in place:
To correct this issue, I chose to use washers between the axle nut and hub face, so that the axle nut bottoms out on the washer before reaching the end of the threaded portion of the axle. However, the dimensions of this washer need to be fairly specific and are not likely available commercially, so some grinding will be required. Your best bet is going to be picking up a few different sizes at the hardware store and seeing which one will require the least amount of grinding.
OUTER DIAMETER: the washer needs to be small enough to fit into the recess on the hub where the axle nut tightens, while still being larger than the axle nut itself.
INNER DIAMETER: clearly, the inner diameter needs to be large enough to fit over the threaded portion of the axle. However, it also needs to be large enough to fit over the SPLINED portion of the axle. If the inner diameter does not clear the shoulder on the splined portion of the axle, the nut will still be unable to adequately tighter down on the hub.
I found a bench grinder worked the best on the outer diameter of the washer, which a dremel and reinforced cutoff disk worked the best to open up the interior diameter. Once the washer is ground down, it whould fit in place like so (notice that the shoulder of the splines will easily fit through the inner diamter):
Once you are confident the washer will work, tighten the axle nut down to 181 ft.-lb and make sure to stake the nut against the shoulder of the axle.
18. Install your 5-lug rotors, caliper brackets, brake pads, and brake calipers. You will more than likely need to compress the piston with a C-clamp in order to fit the piston over new pads/rotors. Bleed the brakes (only necessary if you switched calipers).
19. Bolt the brake hoses to the knuckle. I could only get one bolt on the hose tab to line up with the holes on the knuckle, but I think that sould be adequite.
20. I don't think the 5th gen knuckles use the "knuckle protectors" mentioned in step 7. I did not reinstall them.
21. Triple check the tightness on all the bolts, install your 5 lug wheels of choice, and take a SLOW test drive paying attention for any wiered noises, play, or vibration.
INNER DIAMETER: clearly, the inner diameter needs to be large enough to fit over the threaded portion of the axle. However, it also needs to be large enough to fit over the SPLINED portion of the axle. If the inner diameter does not clear the shoulder on the splined portion of the axle, the nut will still be unable to adequately tighter down on the hub.
good write up red. thanks a lot. this is something i did not consider, so i need to go back and double check my inside washer diameter.
good write up red. thanks a lot. this is something i did not consider, so i need to go back and double check my inside washer diameter.
Yeah, this is the point that someone (can't remember who) realized after blowing through a few wheel bearings. People kept telling me it would make a lot more sense once you have everything in front of you, and it really does. The tricky part is that you really can't visually tell that the nut bottoms out on the threads . . . the clearance is just really small.
I paid $300 for my knuckles/calipers/spindles BUT at the same time I also paid for the following:
- new front pads
- 4 new rotors
- rebuild kits for calipers
- brake fluid
- wheel bearings
- new wheel studs
- new lug nuts
- allignment
- mount/balance tires
5th gen axles are different than 4th gen axles, and wont work. I believe trident has tried this b4. From what I remember, the passenger side axle works, but the driver side axle does not. Its on an old thread that could be found in searched right.
My question is can anyone point out an exact size of washers that they used and worked until perfection? So I dont have to purshase a whole bunch when I get started.
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If any pics I have posted in the past appear to be missing, it is because I changed domain names. The images are still available on my site. You will simply need to copy the old link of the image(right click on the red X or not found link and click view the properties of the image, or quote my post to get the URL), remove the gzone.homelinux.org part, and replate it with thegzone.net/old_site/. Thanks.
Measure the width of the splined portion of the axle---that's your minimum inside diameter.
Measure the width of your axle nut---that's your minimum outside diameter.
Measure the width of the recessed portion of the hub---that's your maximum outside diameter.
IIRC, your best bet is to find a washer with an acceptable outside diameter, and then grind the ID to what you need (i.e., using a Dremel).
Something I've been wondering about though; does the washer need to be a specific thickness? I have a friend that works in an autoshop, and he suggested using axle nut washers from a different car, provided I can find one that fits that is. My only concern here is that the washer would be too thick, and not leave the axle nut with enough thread to fully seat down. Can someone take a look and see how much threaded portion (above the axle nut) there is to play with?
I'm planning the 5 lug swap soon, so I can give you the exact measurements when I have them. It won't be for a few weeks though.
yea, i m trying to find out all that info too...weird that a lot of people have done it, but one has pics and dimensions of the actual washers they baught...anyway, i m planning on doing mine this weekend, I got everything but the washers, so i guess i ll search some more.
g
__________________
NOTE:
If any pics I have posted in the past appear to be missing, it is because I changed domain names. The images are still available on my site. You will simply need to copy the old link of the image(right click on the red X or not found link and click view the properties of the image, or quote my post to get the URL), remove the gzone.homelinux.org part, and replate it with thegzone.net/old_site/. Thanks.
i am almost certian the two washers that i bough had an ID of 1" and 3/4". the 1" was too big, and the 3/4" was too small. when i say to big, it was too big to fit into the axle nut area. when i say too small, it would not fit over the spindle. so i grabbed a file and started filing out the inside.
if pictures would really help, i will take off my wheel this weekend and try to grab a few pictures. lmk.
does anyone know if the 4th gen caliper bolts and bracket bolts work with the 5th gen brackets and calipers ?
__________________
NOTE:
If any pics I have posted in the past appear to be missing, it is because I changed domain names. The images are still available on my site. You will simply need to copy the old link of the image(right click on the red X or not found link and click view the properties of the image, or quote my post to get the URL), remove the gzone.homelinux.org part, and replate it with thegzone.net/old_site/. Thanks.
^^^never mind, just checked, the part numbers are the same on hondaautomotive parts...
__________________
NOTE:
If any pics I have posted in the past appear to be missing, it is because I changed domain names. The images are still available on my site. You will simply need to copy the old link of the image(right click on the red X or not found link and click view the properties of the image, or quote my post to get the URL), remove the gzone.homelinux.org part, and replate it with thegzone.net/old_site/. Thanks.
