I was wondering how much better the h22 is over the h23... Obviously its got an extra 30 HP primarily due to better cams and higher redline. So I was wondering, in a build up, what would the difference be between the two? The point being...
1) With a chip you'll raise the h23 to rev as high as h22.
2) With new piston they will run the same compression anyway.
3) With headwork, the more agressive VTEC cams wont really matter, since you would change cams anyway.
So what am I missing here? What makes the h22 a better engine than the h23 when both are built to the same specs (same stage cams, same compression, etc). If anything, should the h23 be a little better since you've got the extra .1 liter. Is the h22 stronger and able to withstand more revving, boost, etc?
Thanks for your input,
-Jordan
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1999 Prelude Base (daily driver)
1992 Prelude Si 4WS (broken)
Thats why the better stock engine has less displacement, because it can rev high easier. Indy cars have incredably high redlines and they use large pistons with a short stroke.
VTEC is the magic here. The thing with the VTEC is it allows you to have 2 cam profiles in the same engine at the same time. You could have the low rpm cam optimized for low end TQ while the high rpm cam is set for top end hp.
Other then a little higher compression ratio and the head ofcourse, the engines are basically the same. They even have the same block (p13).
Imagine if you had 6 cam profiles instead of 2, you could have a cam profile for every 1.5krpm! That would kick ass.
Originally posted by Absolut VTEC is the magic here. The thing with the VTEC is it allows you to have 2 cam profiles in the same engine at the same time. You could have the low rpm cam optimized for low end TQ while the high rpm cam is set for top end hp.
Other then a little higher compression ratio and the head ofcourse, the engines are basically the same. They even have the same block (p13).
Imagine if you had 6 cam profiles instead of 2, you could have a cam profile for every 1.5krpm! That would kick ass.
In actuallity, how beneficial is the dual cam profiles, all else being equal. We all now theory works alot better. In actuality - VTEC vs non-VTEC with the same compression and redline, would the hp upgrade still be as significant?
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1999 Prelude Base (daily driver)
1992 Prelude Si 4WS (broken)
Originally posted by Jordan_4WS
In actuallity, how beneficial is the dual cam profiles, all else being equal. We all now theory works alot better. In actuality - VTEC vs non-VTEC with the same compression and redline, would the hp upgrade still be as significant?
It allows the motor to have a cam profile designed for low end torque, and at high RPMs it switches to a more aggressive profile suitable for higher HP. Whereas the H23 has a single profile that has to compromise to be suitable for both.
If the motors were the same asides from VTEC, VTEC would still win, for the above reason.
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1994 Prelude Si (Sitting in Garage)
2004 WRX Wagon (Pounding the snow)
I'll tell you this much, the USDM H22s DO NOT have 30 HP more than the Si...there's no way, I run about a tenth of a second slower than just about every 5th gen I've run with similar mods...Even the USDM 4th gens...Jason, your car had just a short ram, and you were running faster than just about everyone that one night, regardless of the mods the other guys had.
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Gone, but not forgotten...rest in peace Jon.
It allows the motor to have a cam profile designed for low end torque, and at high RPMs it switches to a more aggressive profile suitable for higher HP. Whereas the H23 has a single profile that has to compromise to be suitable for both.
If the motors were the same asides from VTEC, VTEC would still win, for the above reason.
But how siginificant. It all sounds good in theory, but we know most things are less effective in actuallity. So everything being the same; how much more HP or how much faster in the 1/4 mile do you think VTEC make?
-Jordan
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1999 Prelude Base (daily driver)
1992 Prelude Si 4WS (broken)
VTEC would make the same amount of HP as a good set of High RPM cams and some higher compression pistons with a bumper redline. That's what the H22 has on the H23 in a nutshell.
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Gone, but not forgotten...rest in peace Jon.
Originally posted by cantdrive55 I'll tell you this much, the USDM H22s DO NOT have 30 HP more than the Si...there's no way, I run about a tenth of a second slower than just about every 5th gen I've run with similar mods...Even the USDM 4th gens...Jason, your car had just a short ram, and you were running faster than just about everyone that one night, regardless of the mods the other guys had.
OK the reason with your limited mods you are run'n with or ahead of the 5th gen is this reason. You are faster off the line b/c of where your tq and hp is in your rev line. Alone with lighter weight it makes you quicker off the line and then they use hp to catch up in the high end of thier engine.
You guys are all overlooking one huge thing that makes these two engines appart.
Stroke- This is what gives our engines tq and why it's better not to rev the engine to any higher than the factory ecu lets you. It's physics you can rev quicker with a shorter stroke but you will lose serious tq. Also this makes the pistons travel farther for the same rpms so you don't want to put in a chip that makes you rev higher with stock internals or your engine will go boom!
However this longer stock helps us out in another catagory and that's turbo. We have the most idea engine to turbo out of any of the honda cars for many reasons being.
Displacement
Stroke
Gearing
Turbo this and you will spank any vtec
Peace
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93 Prelude Si
CAI
15" Montegi MR7's (Gunmetal)
Yokahoma AVC's (V-speed rated tires)
NGK plugs
Front strut tower brace
And of course manual
Civics are like tampons every pussy has one.......
OK the reason with your limited mods you are run'n with or ahead of the 5th gen is this reason. You are faster off the line b/c of where your tq and hp is in your rev line. Alone with lighter weight it makes you quicker off the line and then they use hp to catch up in the high end of thier engine.
You guys are all overlooking one huge thing that makes these two engines appart.
Stroke- This is what gives our engines tq and why it's better not to rev the engine to any higher than the factory ecu lets you. It's physics you can rev quicker with a shorter stroke but you will lose serious tq. Also this makes the pistons travel farther for the same rpms so you don't want to put in a chip that makes you rev higher with stock internals or your engine will go boom!
However this longer stock helps us out in another catagory and that's turbo. We have the most idea engine to turbo out of any of the honda cars for many reasons being.
Displacement
Stroke
Gearing
Turbo this and you will spank any vtec
Peace
The reason I actually started this thread,is because I heard turbo h22 is better than a turbo h23 if they both ahve the same boost and the same compression. That is why I am wondering this in the first place. It seems the abilty to tune 'higher rpms' wouldnt matter on turbo, cause you arent really revving high. Also our better gearing. I was told something about the h22 being a 'stronger' engine, but I dont really know what that is supposed to mean.
-Jordan
__________________
1999 Prelude Base (daily driver)
1992 Prelude Si 4WS (broken)
Stiff springs allow the engine to run at high rpm's as long as your internals are strong enough. The compression ratio is very little difference between a h23 and h22. If you put in a cam with abou the same profile as the high rpm vtec cam and could rev to the same rpm the hp should be about equal. Absolut about having 6 different profiles is great compared to some new stuff. Ferrari's have a evolving cam profile and it slides over more and more at higher rpm's. Or BMW's new valve tronic, it can change valve lift from 1mm to 9.8mm. With this control the trottle body does not need a butterfly valve to block air when power isn't needed. The vavles just open less allowing less air in. This is more efficient and gives better MPG.
Originally posted by cantdrive55 I'll tell you this much, the USDM H22s DO NOT have 30 HP more than the Si...there's no way, I run about a tenth of a second slower than just about every 5th gen I've run with similar mods...Even the USDM 4th gens...Jason, your car had just a short ram, and you were running faster than just about everyone that one night, regardless of the mods the other guys had.
thats because 5th gens are slow (jk guys, lets not start that again)
but I ran a 14.7 @ 96 with an AEM intake only. 15.1 @ 93 stock. thats a far cry from an H23
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