Engine Sounds Dead, Help - Honda Prelude Forum

92preludesi_TX · 02-05-2006, 07:00 PM

OK. I don't know exactly what engine knock sounds like, I have read that it is a rythmic clanky noise when the car is under load. I think this is what may have been the problem.

Today: A couple of friends and I went autocrossing. My clutch is on the way out and was acting somewhat strange. During a run I was downshifting and it engaged funny but I didn't realy think it was a very big deal. Later in the lap I starting hearing a strange clanking when I was accelorating. Then during a turn it felt like my power steering went out. I slowed down and started to bring the car in. Power steering returned but I could hear the clanking a little bit better. I decided to check fluid levels and found that I was low on OIL! I let it sit for awhile and then filled it with some oil.
I then started the car and I could still hear it. I decided to baby it home (140 miles) and on the way home the sound got much worse. I took it out of gear and the car died. I tried to start it again and it just sounded almost like grinding meta!? I looked under the hood and noticed some coolant splashed on the battery and hood? My engine temp sensor wasn't reading high though.
I got toed home and know have to figure out what's wrong.

The Sound: I can only compare it to sounding similar to a busted cv joint, but it was obviously coming from the engine bay.

What can I do to diagnose the problem?
Any suggestions welcome.

95_5speed · 02-05-2006, 08:56 PM

Coolant in the engine bay? Headgasket.. bye bye. You just described about 10 problems, I couldn't single any of them out with out seeing the car in person.

Xander · 02-06-2006, 12:12 AM

damn, chase, that sux. Brett's right, you just descibed a lot of stuff. You've got an H23, right? If you ran it while it was Low on oil, you might have spen the main bearings. I'd drain the oil and see if there is any metal debris in it. Also check for coolant in your oil. Maybe do a compression check and a leakdown test too.

95_5speed · 02-06-2006, 12:31 AM

/\/\ I spun my 3 and 4 main bearings when the oil had thinned out, so I could definitly imagine it happening if the oil was too low by any significant amount. *turns, shifts, oil sloshes to the side, pick up doesnt send oil to places it needs to be..*

could be disaster..

92preludesi_TX · 02-06-2006, 03:37 AM

I wonder why wouldn't my oil light have come on though?!

Xander · 02-06-2006, 03:45 AM

it doesn't come on until you're pretty much out of oil.

92preludesi_TX · 02-06-2006, 06:40 AM

^^I do have an H23
and thanks for the replies..

Well, ok I am trying to think worst case...

I spun main and rod bearings, what other damage might have been done?
will the rods still be intact and straight?
will the crank be ok?
would the pistons have scored the cylinders?

What would need replacing?

I have a set of H22 pistons I wanted to install to gain some compression and they came with a set of h22 rods. To gain compression though I am supposed to use the h23 rods right? If the crank is ok, would I likely just have to replace the bearings?

95_5speed · 02-06-2006, 10:55 AM

When and if you spun bearings, often it will score the cranksahft sorface area where the bearings seat. This isnt the end of the world depending on severity. My rods were still perfct, cylinder walls perfect everything was fine and i was able to replace all the 4 cylinders rod bearings and everything was back to 100%. I dont know how extreme it is to keep driving with spun bearings till the car died though.. That could have done some damage or really ripped up the crank surface.. youll probably want to drop the oil pan off the car, and seriously have a good look at the contents of the pan. If you find debris, you're definitly going to need to take apart more of the engine like drop the cranksahft etc...

Do you work on your own car, or will a shop be doing this work?

I can tell you from experience, that for me to get new main bearings put in by a shop costed:

$400.00. I was charged for labor, and parts. (set of all new bearings, fram oil filter, motor oil, and parts cleaner.)

92preludesi_TX · 02-06-2006, 12:04 PM

I have worked on cars before but nothing this severe. I was planning on replacing my clutch in the next couple of weeks on my own now that I have a helms. The most technical job I have done on my car was replacing the axles 2 years ago.

I definately want to try and do as much as possible to save cost. As a college student I really don't have alot of money to spend.

If i am going to drain the oil, how should I check or sift for debri as it is coming out?
Also, when removing the oil pan, is there any load bearing supports that are in the way?
How difficult is it to pull the engine to work on it anyway? I would think that if I were going to do most of this myself, it would be best to remove it.

So possible things to replace list:
-Main and/or Rod bearings
-Have the crank machined if salvageable - any idea on cost?

Xander · 02-06-2006, 12:08 PM

Chase, you could always talk to KC down there about your car.

92preludesi_TX · 02-06-2006, 12:14 PM

is he the other baylor student with the red si?
I rarely see him and haven't really gotten to know him, but if he has experience and you think he would be willing to help I would welcome it.

I have a couple of buddies and we always work on each others cars...we just don't have any engine internal experience...yet

Xander · 02-06-2006, 12:44 PM

I believe you're thinking of Bill. KC is finishing a rebuild project for 1 of our club members. I'll get his phone # tonight and send it to you.

92preludesi_TX · 02-06-2006, 02:03 PM

He lives in Waco?
Any help is help , thanks...

I did find a place that I might be able to work on the car. One of my buddies is friends with a local performance shop owner. The owner is moving out of town and going to start up another shop. Right now there isn't really much going on at the old shop so I might be able to use one of their bays. It would definately be better than doing the work in the parking lot of my apartment. I just have to ask the guy that was left in charge of the shop...

95_5speed · 02-06-2006, 02:48 PM

To sift out debris, you could make a mess and sift it through a rag or something.. but another way to check engine problems would be to find a place that does oil analysis. They can take a cample of motor oil, with your information on vehicle milage brand etc.. and send you a full report on what they found in the oil etc.. they can detect even micro particles of metals shaved from your inner engine with these type of oil analysis and you may gain some valuble information for troubleshooting.

Theres nothing in the way of dropping the oil pan, its a pretty easy task. working on whats inside there will require a bit of know how though.

Pulling the entire engine is really a huge job, but i wouldnt go that route unless you find out that it is a must. The free work bay in your local garage you said you may be able to use could help you out a ton given you have people around who could help you, and with tools too.

92preludesi_TX · 02-07-2006, 04:28 PM

UPDATE:

Alright I had a little time to work on the car today...

I bought some mosquito netting, folded it in half and put it under my oil pan. I drained the oil and didn't see anything abnormal. The oil was very black though. I then pulled the oil filter also and drained it through the netting too. Still didn't find anything. It did seem like there was alot of oil on the back side of the block though...I might be overly critical now though since I am trying to look at everything. There are no puddles under the engine and I didn't notice any in the past couple of days, or any smoke for that matter.

I then was going to start to take the oil pan off but decided to going ahead and remove the downpipe so that it could be a little bit better accessible. I got that off but then had to go to work. I won't be able to work on it anymore today but maybe some tomorrow. Next thing on the list is the oil pan.

On a seperate note, I will be working on my car in the parking lot unfortunately, atleast until the power is turned on at the shop I spoke of. Hopefully then I can get the car towed there to work on.. We will see

Any other suggestions on problems since update are welcome...
Thanks

aneurysm · 02-08-2006, 09:13 AM

Based on the beating you said you gave the car (i.e. autox) and the whole scenario, I would think its crankshaft (main) bearing(s). When you remove the oil pan look for metallic shavings in the bottom of the pan. The same thing happened to my old H23 after racing on a track and the oil ran low causing #2 and #3 crankshaft bearings to spin. I ended up scraping the engine for $250 and bought a H22A.

Good luck-

Brad

92preludesi_TX · 02-08-2006, 12:27 PM

UPDATE:

Just finished checking the oil pan... I coud definately see some metal shavings. I didn't have time to take any pictures because I have a class in thirty minutes and I had to put everything back together enough to put the wheels back on and drop the car.

So, where to I go from here? It does look like I spun a/some bearing(s), how difficult is it to take the oil pickup parts off so I can see the crank?

I may have some time after class before I have to go to work to take some pictures. I want to actually get the peices out so I can look at them more closely. They all looked fairly small, like bearing peices. I didn't see any big chunks to I guess thats a good sign.
Thanks...

aneurysm · 02-08-2006, 01:12 PM

you will need to have the bottom end rebuilt. New bearings and possibly new crankshaft - which needs to be done at a machine shop. In other words, you should buy a new JDM engine. I highly recommend the H22A.

I feel your pain...just happened to me about 2 years ago.

Brad

92preludesi_TX · 02-08-2006, 02:28 PM

I would much rather rebuild than swap right now...I don't have an extra 2 grand to spend on a new engine.

aneurysm · 02-08-2006, 03:36 PM

The rebuild will cost a good chunk of change(maybe $800-1000) - on an engine that old its just not economical to spend that much money rather than getting a whole new motor. That's why I did mine.

(PS: you can probably buy a whole used H23Aa motor for about $600-800 and it will drop right it vs. doing the H22 swap)