Ok in another thread (Any ECU plug in replacements for more power?) I said I would post up my dyno results as I was using a chipped ECU. One spanner in the works was that I found out that my JDM SI VTEC has had a UKDM engine swap. I thought I checked the engine stamp properly at the time, but I was probally too distracted by the JASMA stamped Fujitsubo header staring at me So my UKDM H22a2 should produce 183bhp instead of the JDM H22a 197bhp. Im pretty pissed (my own fault for not checking properly) but I got the car really cheap anyway.
Unfortunately my immobiliser didnt like the standard UKDM ECU when it was plugged in so I cant compare the difference between the two ECU's
The ECU in the car:
Make what you will from this result:
Model: JDM 2.2 SI VTEC
Known Modifications:
UKDM H22a2
Spoon JDM P13 ECU - VTEC @ 5K limiter at 8.5k+
K&N Flat panel filter with resonator removed
Fujitsubo exhaust manifold
2.4" SS Japspeed decat
2.4" straight through SS Japspeed exhaust
Power: 199.0 BHP (155.9 WHP)
Torque: 152.9 lb/ft
On a side note I got the car weighed and it was 1250 Kg with full interior, spare wheel and a full tank of fuel.
I should have explained better in my first post, I have not wasted any money, I bought the car (cheap) with this ECU in it for use on the race track. In all probability the car came over from Japan with this ECU. I did intend this to be a straight JDM ECU Vs chipped JDM ECU but since the car has had a UKDM engine swap all comparable results would have been useless. Im posting it up as I said I would do regardless of the result. Im not advocating spending money on chipped ECU's.
Even if the ECU does not poduce any extra power, it has removed the JDM 112mph speed limiter, and lowered VTEC to 5K with is better for the track.
Quote:
Originally Posted by minilogoguy18
your dyno readout is lower than a stock H22a.
No it isnt, a JDM H22a should be 197bhp, I made 199bhp from an H22a2 that comes from the factory with 183bhp.
Ok, sorry, you made the same power roughly as a bone stock H22a. Dropping the VTEC point to 5k doesn't mean instant speed, VTEC is best set just as the torque for the low cam is starting to fall off.
A stock H22a with an S300 could make more and while you may not wasted any money on it I sure wouldn't go around promoting that people buy these so that they waste money on it.
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New Formula Red 93 BB2: JDM OBD1 H22a/T2W4 Accord Euro R transmission
Refering to the H22a is not relevant as I dont have one. I made an increase of 16bhp off an exhaust, header, and ECU (not too far away from a 10% increase). It was my aim to do a comparison of the stock ECU and a chipped ECU but as I said that wasnt possible, but I posted up my results anyway as I said I would in the other thread.
I wanted to show one way or the other that chips were beneficial or not, I am neither pro or against the use of them as I dont know myself if they produce power. All the noise coming out of US forums are that they are bad, but there is no documented evidence that I have found.
As for dropping VTEC to 5K, that is beneficial for the track as it allows you to still be in VTEC after every gear change.
1. it's bad because it's bad. You don't want to lower your engagement if you don't have the necessary modifications for it. If that was the case, might as well lower it to 3k.
2. If you are shifting correctly, doesn't matter if you stay in vtec or not, you will get around the track just fine.
3. Due to the way you did the results, there still is not evidence it ever worked so the thread is pointless.
4. My stock jdm h22a with oem everything made 160 whp. That being said every dyno reads different.
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"I am a ricer because I have Z3 fenders" Bless Her Heart ORG
A stock H22a with an S300 could make more and while you may not wasted any money on it I sure wouldn't go around promoting that people buy these so that they waste money on it.
Best argument ever, I think ?
so a) engine with 183bhp gains circa 17 fly bhp give or take with some cheap and basic bolt ons.
and your argument is:
b) what a waste of money (0 because the car was bought as such, and even if not UK guys don't pay anywhere near the JDM tax Americans do) because your engine only makes the same bhp as a different engine with higher compression (engine swap $$)? and more to the point, WITH the addition of a 600 dollar ecu, which would then need dynamo-meter tuning - and in the UK that can mean traveling 300 miles or so and paying 70 dollars per hour.
I think it's not so bad to be honest, and bear in mind we can get h22a7's and h22a's for peanuts so it's something that could realistically be added on top of the mods he has to reveal real decent gains, so no need for harsh judgment.
Secondly, how exactly do you know that the ECU chip was bought cheaply from ebay? It may well not be genuine but may be a good base map. There's a guy over here does them, and it's not the 'ebay specials' but for a very good price, and there's a few jdm motors running around 230-240bhp (dyno-read) with limited bolt-ons, which I for one think is more than reasonable. Not only is it inexpensive, but it's great for people willing to take a slight risk on the engine front and who are otherwise unable to fund or travel for proper ECU tuning. I'm all in favour of getting a job done correctly but an ecu tune is only as good as the tuner, and you can easily pay as much for a shoddy job as a good one, especially in the UK.
As a final touch on the matter, I have previously compared a well tuned V-AFC and bolt-in sleepy chip and guess which one run smoother and made more power at the top end? The chip which cost 50 dollars. Not to piss on your chips (get the pun) but please don't just regurgitate internet forum crud out of boredom and a need to self-satisfy at the expense of a genuine bloke's efforts.
Good luck with the project Merlin, those results are good and have proved I can happily run a JDM P13 on my 2a2 for the meantime at least
So what if a cheap chip made 1whp and 0.5wtq more than a vfac tune, vafc's are limited in what they can do and only change air/fuel by tricking the map sensor to think that the motor is under more load than it actually is.
You also don't need to pay a bunch of money to have a tune done on what his car is which is lightly modified, someone could easily had street tuned it.
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New Formula Red 93 BB2: JDM OBD1 H22a/T2W4 Accord Euro R transmission
So what if a cheap chip made 1whp and 0.5wtq more than a vfac tune, vafc's are limited in what they can do and only change air/fuel by tricking the map sensor to think that the motor is under more load than it actually is.
Well it contradicts the argument that money is necessarily 'wasted' on a non-specific chip when a tune will undoubtedly serve better performance wise. Many cheap chips are indeed a pile of bull**** maps, but ones made by a specialist need not be crap. Specific peoples engines don't vary all that much, and not to the extent that a base map may be good for one and not for another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mminilogoguy18
You also don't need to pay a bunch of money to have a tune done on what his car is which is lightly modified, someone could easily had street tuned it.
Not true in the uk. Perhaps in the US where many tuners are versed in import tuning. Here, for a basic modifiable ECU piggyback or mountable tunable chip costs at the very minimum 1000 dollars + 70 dollars per hour dyno-time. I can only think of one tuner who street-tunes and his reputation is sketchy. That's after factoring in a good few hundred dollars and many hours traveling to such a place. Most tuners here aren't that great, as with engine shops, there's maybe a handful at the most of tuners well versed in honda engines and the prices are more than considerably high. Regarding engine shops there's endless stories of people paying 20k+ dollars putting their engines in to be rebuilt, only to wait 3 years + , have the company go bust and never see any of their money or engines again. So you can probably see the lack of trust in the tuning scene we have. I'd feel a lot safer using a chip which has been proved by a few users to give reasonably good gains than send it to somewhere where it's a hit or a miss after spending big cash.
On the flipside we have readily available high-octane fuel, we pay less for jdm parts and they are easier to come by. I have a 400bhp z32 which runs a chip which was made by a specialist and cost all of 70 pounds including the replacement ECU. It runs brilliantly and has done for ages. Bang for buck it's awesom, as quick as an aston DB9 to 170mph and cost me all of 4000 dollars including the car
I do honestly appreciate where you are coming from, but it seems you were being a little harsh, especially as things are very different over here with regards to tuning.
Well that sucks. If you can afford $1000 to tune your car properly, then you can spend some money on the mods.
I highly doubt people are that stupid. You can buy a a/f meter from innovative and street tune your car for $300. It might not be the best but it's a street tune.
Sidenote (not necessarily aimed at you)
I don't know why people compare their cars to others as well. Does it make you justify your purchase? There are always a handful of people saying my (insert much less desirable car here) can beat this (very desirable car here). Sure you might very well can, but I would still rather drive away in a slower DB9 than z32..but I guess that's my opinion.
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"I am a ricer because I have Z3 fenders" Bless Her Heart ORG
Well that sucks. If you can afford $1000 to tune your car properly, then you can spend some money on the mods.
I highly doubt people are that stupid. You can buy a a/f meter from innovative and street tune your car for $300. It might not be the best but it's a street tune.
Sidenote (not necessarily aimed at you)
I don't know why people compare their cars to others as well. Does it make you justify your purchase? There are always a handful of people saying my (insert much less desirable car here) can beat this (very desirable car here). Sure you might very well can, but I would still rather drive away in a slower DB9 than z32..but I guess that's my opinion.
Regarding tuning I'm afraid yes, we just gotta make do with what we can though I suppose! Reg the second comment yeah you have a point I'd also much sooner be driving around in a DB9, though they are a bit on the common side.. was just to point out that at least there are some advantages to living in the UK car-wise and good fast cars can be had for cheap. Hell I bought a 50k mile mint condition EF9 SIR civic in barca green for 600 dollars with full year mot and tax but to be fair that was one hell of a deal and sold it on for closer to 6000 a week later hehe. Anyway not to hit on your methods over there, I really wish we had stuff as good as you guys tuning wise buts we gotta make do's.
I mean there are still plenty of places here in america where you don't even need to run a catalytic converter (which is bad and almost no performance gain if you buy a decent high flow cat).
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"I am a ricer because I have Z3 fenders" Bless Her Heart ORG
I mean there are still plenty of places here in america where you don't even need to run a catalytic converter (which is bad and almost no performance gain if you buy a decent high flow cat).
Legally were not allowed aftermarket exhausts and for MOT's we shouldn't have de-cats on any car post 1992 (uk cars - jap imports is a grey area). However, nothing that a back-hander to the MOT garage can't sort out I've had plenty cars running de-cats and stupidly loud exhaust and only once run into trouble with it. I think it's just ecu tuning that is miles behind, the fact petrol is ridiculously expensive and that new parts are more expensive than in America. Oh and you guys develop stuff a lot more than over here. Most people here who are serious about tuning get our stuff from US or Japan anyway (postage much ££££)
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So my UKDM H22a2 should produce 183bhp instead of the JDM H22a 197bhp. Im pretty pissed (my own fault for not checking properly) but I got the car really cheap anyway.
but to be fair that was one hell of a deal and sold it on for closer to 6000 a week later hehe. Anyway not to hit on your methods over there, I really wish we had stuff as good as you guys tuning wise buts we gotta make do's.
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