I was thinking this could be possible. Drill through the long runner plate and create a butterfly assembly for them just like the short runners.
Rig/Create/Fab the existing or another butterfly assembly keep the long runners open and then close when the short ones open.
Still thinking about the best way to do this.
Wouldn't this accomplish what the OEM dual stage IM is designed to do AS WELL as not have both runners open during the transition point? Wouldn't this eliminate the turbulence caused by alternate air flow paths which kill the airflow speed during IM Butterfly Changeover? Heck, why not redo the whole thing and make it a triple-stage IM (ecu mod needed for this one though)...
long runners open----long closed/short open----long & short open
Anyhow, this is the kind of crap IM (no pun intended) forced to think and daydream about, rather than plugging in my Mastercard CC # into a shopping cart containing a ACTUAL Skunk2 IM. Argh!
that would just be insanely pointless to redo an intake manifold design for something that happens in less than a fraction of a second. it's not like they slowly open, they flip right open.
And please diagram if I'm just missing the point... the post was hard to follow
- matt
__________________ '02 Maxima SE '93 Prelude vtec - sold
so when i idle both large and small will be shut? there really is no purpose to this cause i assume when you WOT both sets will be open and you will virtually be back to what we currently have.
You want both runners closed? Good luck with a new engine swap! Good Lord, NO!!!
...In an H22a long primary runners are always open until 4800 rpm then the Bfly opens the secondary short fat runners. At this point of transition both runners are open till the rpms go back below 4800 rpm.
This is the controversy with having the BFly vacuum hose pulled off and plugged as some have done hoping for better airflow (this disables the secondaries diaphram and makes them "always open") However this scenario looses torque at lower rpms, due to lack of good flow. Air or anything fluid really does not deal well with interrupted flow, even for a split second, as in the 4800rpm BFly engagement point. Air is flowing through the IM following a trajectory through the long runners. As the Secondary Bfly opens all the short fat runners, there are now 2 paths to follow into the head (just before the injector/head actually). I believe the Honda Guys figure that above that RPM , air flowing like this is "better" than just through the primary long skinny runners alone, BUT surely not as efficiently as possible, especially on a moded engine.
This brings us to my original question, so please re-read it now if you are clearer on what I am suggesting.
1. Fab/Mod the existing butterfly plate by adding/fabing another butterfly through these primary runner ports on the plate.
2. Either through a spare Bfly assembly, or modding/adding to the action of the existing one (in a reverse fashion to the secondary Bfly)
ie. the 1st stage primary long runners w/ modded Bfly assembly would remain OPEN as OEM does, BUT at 4800 RPM rather than Both runners open, have the secondaries open while primaries close.
This in my view seems like it could produce better flow in the midrange. I do not know about the upper rpm range, it depends if a single open secondary runner flows enough for the engines requirements at that rpm range. Who knows, maybe both runners would outflow just the secondaries at a certain rpm, i am not sure. Both runners being open at a higher 7000 rpm range (for example) may flow better than just the secondaries as this mod idea suggests, Im not sure. If so, this is why I threw in "triple stage". This would mean there would have to be another mechanism and ecu signal to make the modded primary Bflys open again.
* Ideally it would be good to have the primaries close after the secondaries are open so as not to have the risk of both being closed at the same time (I see the similar concern which someone brought up in relation to the previous post)
Anyhow, some may say this is wack! Some may say it sounds good in theory!
But I post it here just to see what you all think, NOT whether I should waste my time on this or not. Believe me, I will never take this project on, just curious and wanted to shoot this out to any of you that have 2 cents about the design idea itself, the design of the OEM and dual stage concepts, or just about airflow and fluid dynamics.
Why don't you just slap a euro-r IM on and call it a day.
__________________
*SONIK*
-95 VTEC
*Short Ram Intake*Greddy SS Header*"Hi-Flo Cat"*Thermal R&D Classic catback*AEM Tru Power Pullies*Front & Rear strut bars*H&R Sport Springs*KYB AGX Shocks*Exedy Racing Clutch*Fidanza Flywheel*ES MM Inserts*..working on it.
Originally posted by 4thGenReady2Go i'm thinking more like the PITA principle, but hey, we're not shooting you down for the idea, at least you thought of something.
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