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Old 01-06-2003, 09:03 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Dual exhaust

I want dual exhaust. No i was thinking about splitting the pipe right after the cat. Is there enough room to run 2 pipes back? Or should i split it at the back (which i kinda dont want to do). What everyone's opinion? (NOT advice and the cons of it, comments on how to set it up)
If anyone has dual exhaust can you post a pic and how you did it?
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:14 AM   #2 (permalink)
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If you are actually going to run a dual exhaust, you will have to have a Y-Pipe made to split the single exhaust pipe into two. Thats pretty much it.

Just for the record... I dont approve of dual exhausts. Its only added weight, and too much of a exhaust gas velocity loss.
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:28 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by red92si
If you are actually going to run a dual exhaust, you will have to have a Y-Pipe made to split the single exhaust pipe into two. Thats pretty much it.

Just for the record... I dont approve of dual exhausts. Its only added weight, and too much of a exhaust gas velocity loss.
The velocity shouldn't be a problem, actually the engine should be able to get rid of the exhaust faster which makes the engine run better.
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Old 01-07-2003, 05:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Why not do a search first?
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Old 01-07-2003, 10:43 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Qveon

The velocity shouldn't be a problem, actually the engine should be able to get rid of the exhaust faster which makes the engine run better.
I know that you don't want it, but...
4 cyl engines like a lot of back pressure, too much flow on the exaust end can actually reduce performance...

now that I've proven myself a jerk I will say that I totally love the look of dual exaust... and if there were a way to maybe use smaller pipe after the split to keep back pressure up it would be cool... just a thought.
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Old 01-07-2003, 11:23 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by fleshbox


I know that you don't want it, but...
4 cyl engines like a lot of back pressure, too much flow on the exaust end can actually reduce performance...

now that I've proven myself a jerk I will say that I totally love the look of dual exaust... and if there were a way to maybe use smaller pipe after the split to keep back pressure up it would be cool... just a thought.
BACK PRESSURE IS NEVER GOOD!!!

Now that I have that clear, you do want the exhaust gas to exit with some velocity because then it helps pull more exhaust out of the combustion chamber resulting in more power. With dual exhaust you will lose power and not gain anything. The exhaust gas won't be passing out fast enough to help gain power. That is why most people go with a single exhaust with piping from 2.25-2.5 inches maybe 3 if you are FI.
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Old 01-07-2003, 11:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by brendon2k

BACK PRESSURE IS NEVER GOOD!!!

Now that I have that clear, you do want the exhaust gas to exit with some velocity because then it helps pull more exhaust out of the combustion chamber resulting in more power. With dual exhaust you will lose power and not gain anything. The exhaust gas won't be passing out fast enough to help gain power. That is why most people go with a single exhaust with piping from 2.25-2.5 inches maybe 3 if you are FI.
Ok this is long, but please read the whole thing before commenting...thanks.

I agree backpressure is never good. Or else you would see professional dragsters having mufflers right? Well they don't so whats that tell ya?

But i don't agree on the exhaust "pulling" more exhaust gas out of the engine. Thats not true. The engine "pushes" exhaust out because the cylinder head comes up while the exhaust valve is open which forces gas out into the exhaust.

Anyways further on the topic, back to velocity; Exhaust is going to flow wheter you have a 2.5" pipe or a 6" pipe, it is still going to floow just not as fast because Pressure In to the exhaust is > pressure out which makes flow. So if you have dual exhaust, that is creating more volume of exhaust gasses to pass through the exhaust system. I.E. each pipe takes 1/2 of the gasses at 1/2 the rate which means 1/2 the back pressure. Now with single exhaust, one pipe is taking 100% of the gas all the time at 100% rate of the velocity the engine puts out.

Ok so lets say you have 2 setups:
#1: dual 2.25" exhaust
and
#2: single 3" exhaust
Now which is going to have more volume to move air with the least backpressure? The dual exhaust right? yes...because pressure in an exhaust system is bad because exhaust can't escape which causes the engine to not burn correctly in the combustion chamber and "sufficate" the engine. Now to prove there is less pressure in dual exhaust lets look at the math:

single 3"
ok so A=(pie)r^2 right?
A=(3.14)1.5^2
A=~7.01"

Dual 2.25"
A=2((pie)r^2)
A=2((3.14)1.125^2
A=~7.95"

So try this at home experiment: Grab two things: a straw and a paper towel roll. Blow as hard as you can through each. What should you observe:

Straw:
Air flows very fast through end, but it is very hard to blow through the straw that hard and takes a lot longer to exhale all of your air in your lungs.

Paper towel roll:
Air flows slower through the end, but it is a lot easier to blow through the roll and takes a lot less time to exhale all the air out of your lungs.
(please do not reply with sticking 2 straws in your mouth doesn't work better then the paper towel roll. If you want the point, i am saying that a system with less volume causes the engine to work harder. The volumes of the experiment are not really close in values to the dual exhaust and 3" single exhaust. Its just a simple experiment/example to show how air flows through different volumes of piping.)
Apply this to your engine. on the exhaust stroke, if you apply pressure back into the cylinder, that would make it harder for the cylinder to come up and force the engine to work harder to finish the stroke which means a loss of power for the other cylinder that is currently compressing. But more or less what is happening is that part of the exhaust gas is getting mixed in with the fresh air/fuel mixture that is coming in and is causing not as good combustion which is causing loss of power.

So in conclusion, the dual exhaust DOES make the exhaust flow slower, but the system can get rid of the same amount of exhaust as the single pipe, but the dual system gets rid of it with ~1/2 or less the pressure of the single pipe. But i do see what you guys are talking about. with bigger pipes the chance of reversion is greater, but you have to have a pretty large system for reversion to become a problem. Like dual 3" would most likely cause a problem, but running a dual 2.25" or 2" would be a little better or about the same as one 3" all the way back. And you won't too suseptable to reversion because the the backwards flow toward the engine (not pressure, flow) would be stoped by muffler(s), resonator(s) and the cat.
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Old 01-08-2003, 12:09 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
But i don't agree on the exhaust "pulling" more exhaust gas out of the engine. Thats not true. The engine "pushes" exhaust out because the cylinder head comes up while the exhaust valve is open which forces gas out into the exhaust.
Ah, yes it does. At the end of the exhaust stroke while both intake and exhuast valves are open, the gasses are still moving and because the piston has reached the top the exhuast creates a slight vacuum and pulls some fresh air into the cylinder and helps cool. This is why valves are designed to overlap. This is called Scavenging and most if not all engineers/mechanics know about it.
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Old 01-08-2003, 02:34 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by PDUNZ


Ah, yes it does. At the end of the exhaust stroke while both intake and exhuast valves are open, the gasses are still moving and because the piston has reached the top the exhuast creates a slight vacuum and pulls some fresh air into the cylinder and helps cool. This is why valves are designed to overlap. This is called Scavenging and most if not all engineers/mechanics know about it.
yes technically...but not any more then the usual amount.
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Old 01-08-2003, 11:04 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Ok, I see where I was wrong... a smaller diameter helps low end torque because increased gas velocity aids the scavenging process. but hinders upper RPM power because it becomes restrictive...NOT because of the backpressure as I had previously believed...

I am of the mind that your dual (smaller) would possibly increase power slightly in the upper rpm, but might not affect anything as any bend or y is going to cause more restriction.... so what you will most likely end up with is a nice looking (and I would assume nice sounding) exaust.

Lots of math to do it right...
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