custom upper strut bar problem - Honda Prelude Forum

pr1mo_13 · 01-05-2006, 02:20 PM

I planned on making my own strut bar for a 4th gen without the pivit arms so there wouldn't be a chance of brittle parts. after looking at my engine bay for a while i saw there was a lot of **** in the way by the strut bolts and that the angle of the body where the plate from the strut bar would mate to was not exactly flat (in the sense that it isn't really one plane and it is sloped). would It make sense to make it like this:

. _________
<.................>

(ignore the dots and pretend the lines are connected..) I did some drawings on it but can't scan them 'cause i'm at work.. you know how the pivot pint on cheezy strut bars are toward teh inside? i thought it'd be easier to do it on the outside to get better room..

another problem i'm having and afraid of if getting an accurate measurement between the struts..

lastly, since the strut bolts angle down toward the center of the car, i believe one fabbed, I woudl have to unbolt on strut and pull below the mounting area because (it's hard to explain) but having to come straight down to mount to angled bolts won't work. if anyone had any input on this that would be great. and if you really help me out, when i get these made i'll give you one at no profit to me and discounts on my other stuff (but that's coming later)

pr1mo_13 · 01-10-2006, 10:11 AM

anybody?

petern101 · 01-10-2006, 12:06 PM

well i think there isn't much interest in strut bars since we actually do have alot of selection in this area. neuspeed makes a strut bar w/o pivots and is one piece so that kinda helps.

also seeing as strut bars don't "really" help that much and, i think, is seen as more of icing on top of the cake. i dont' want the thread to turn into a "my strut bar makes me go faster" type thread

btw to install strut bars correctly and/or to measure, i read somewhere on here you should jack up the car on the center crossmember

thats just my .02

SolRayz · 01-10-2006, 08:10 PM

^plz my ebay strut bar added 20hp

cantdrive55 · 01-10-2006, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petern101

well i think there isn't much interest in strut bars since we actually do have alot of selection in this area. neuspeed makes a strut bar w/o pivots and is one piece so that kinda helps.

also seeing as strut bars don't "really" help that much and, i think, is seen as more of icing on top of the cake. i dont' want the thread to turn into a "my strut bar makes me go faster" type thread

btw to install strut bars correctly and/or to measure, i read somewhere on here you should jack up the car on the center crossmember

thats just my .02

apparently you haven't had a quality strut bar with a decent suspension setup on your car. A quality strut bar makes a SIGNIFICANT difference in handling.

yield · 01-10-2006, 10:31 PM

ehhhh, that's very debatable on a double wishbone suspension

petern101 · 01-10-2006, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantdrive55

apparently you haven't had a quality strut bar with a decent suspension setup on your car. A quality strut bar makes a SIGNIFICANT difference in handling.

you are right in that i only have had h & r springs on oem shocks

but the fact of the matter is, there are pretty decent strut bars out there already and i think a sway bar SIGNIFICANTLY does more for our cars than a pair of neuspeed/cusco/spoon strut bars

95_5speed · 01-10-2006, 11:33 PM

The more rigid a chassis is, the less flex you have over all, the less weight transfer you get, the less body roll.. etc etc. Any improvements to the rigidity of a vehicle, are an improvement as far as I am concerned.

To answer the question to the original post here, It's always fun to experiment, so I say go ahead and see what you can come up with. How ever, I wouldn't spend the time to engineer something such as that on your own, because it would only be for you, and possibly only for looks if it is not engineered correctly. Strut bars we can buy on the aftermarket today, are tried and somewhat true. I would assume just buy a solid bar and call it a day if you really want to have one.

I understand not wanting the weak point ghetto ones that people buy on ebay, but even those work to a good degree. They stiffen up over time when installed correctly, and do their job "as well as any other" to the unknowing person who purchases it before they learn about a potential longer lasting "one piece" Strut tower brace / bar.

On a contradicting note here.. I was thinking about which could be better a why, and although the threads on the screw together bars seem like a weak point, they are probably no more susceptible to damage then if you were to have a 1 piece bar with crappy welds on it. In a way, they both have their own weakness.

thats my .02 ~ Brett

pr1mo_13 · 01-11-2006, 02:49 PM

well thanks for the input guys, I've been continuing with drafting the design and figured I will need some sort of pivot point or it won't work without a LOT of hassle. once I get closer to the final product and get started on a cad model i'll post up some of the sketches. Still, the gardest point will be getting an accurate measurement. I think once I get everything designed, and then get the strut tower connectors fabbed, I can get a more accurate reading. My design is going to be a 3 piece with a somewhat large diameter GR. 8 hardware connecting everything.

petern101 · 01-11-2006, 04:41 PM

^gl with that. props for even thinking of making something new for the 4th gen

cantdrive55 · 01-11-2006, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yield

ehhhh, that's very debatable on a double wishbone suspension

buy a decent strut bar and put it on. end of debate.

the rear doesn't make much difference, but the front definately does.

95_5speed · 01-11-2006, 05:55 PM

The car already oversteers as it is, Definitly not necessary in the rear, as is I can agree with that. What bar do you have cantdrive55?

yield · 01-11-2006, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantdrive55

buy a decent strut bar and put it on. end of debate.

I do have one and just like I don't go by butt dynos, I don't go by personal perception on suspension components either. The fact is that in a wishbone type suspension, the strut towers are not load bearing and therefore there is no massive flex involved in them. In a macpherson setup, the strut towers do bear the weight of the car and therefore do flex a lot and a bar is certainly helpful. They probably do help stiffen the car somewhat but I don't believe they make any large change. Go look in the autox forum and you'll see that many people who race their cars competitively don't use them. Obviously a decent change in lap time after installing one would change my mind

i3luemrld · 01-11-2006, 10:52 PM

If u want to control yer under or over stear this is the way to do it

DECREASE UNDERSTEER..... CORRECTION.....DECREASE OVERSTEER

higher pressure........................tire pressure - front......................lower pressure

larger contact area....................tire section - front...............smaller contact area

more negative.........................wheel camber - front.......................more positive

softer............................................ springs - front.........................................stif fer

thinner (softer).............................sway bar - front.........................thicker (stiffer)

larger...........................................s poiler - front.......................................smalle r

lower pressure.........................tire pressure - rear.....................higher pressure

smaller contact area.................tire section - rear..................larger contact area

more positive.........................wheel camber - rear......................more negative

stiffer........................................... .springs - rear.........................................softe r

thicker (stiffer).............................sway bar - rear.........................thinner (softer)

smaller..........................................s poiler - rear........................................larger

weight bias rearward................weight distribution..............weight bias forward

UWNTSUM · 01-12-2006, 05:16 AM

strut bars do something, not much... mainly look nice... sway bars do more but cost more and harder to install. having it all (like me,

LOL) w/ good or great suspension only makes it better as long as the car has been properly setup. I don't really see a point in making your own strut bar. There are a TON of companies that make strut bars for this car. I guess if your bored and all and don't want to spend $100-150 for a nice bar u can *cough* waste ur time to make your own which will end up costing more than a sway bar set. Since time is $ and the amount u spend on doing something that has been been done many times along w/ cost of materials is just simply not worth it. But hey do what makes you happy and best of luck on your project.

pr1mo_13 · 01-12-2006, 10:47 AM

well.. umm, thanks.. sorta UWNTSUM.. for all the encouragement... the fact is that people buy strut bars, I have the ability to have some manufactured for decent prices and welded great. I'm trying to kinda start a company but nothing huge, probably just something to sell like forbidden does his shift kits, but with more parts for different cars. not just imports either, I'm getting some custom valve covers machined for his '71 Nova and some other custom stuff for that and my uncles '63 t-bird. MS AUTOMOTIVE is what I think i'm going to call it.

Paul H22 · 01-12-2006, 11:15 AM

Strutbars do nearly nothing for preludes. Swaybars are the one you want.

Strut Bar Discussion

UWNTSUM · 01-13-2006, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pr1mo_13

well.. umm, thanks.. sorta UWNTSUM.. for all the encouragement... the fact is that people buy strut bars, I have the ability to have some manufactured for decent prices and welded great. I'm trying to kinda start a company but nothing huge, probably just something to sell like forbidden does his shift kits, but with more parts for different cars. not just imports either, I'm getting some custom valve covers machined for his '71 Nova and some other custom stuff for that and my uncles '63 t-bird. MS AUTOMOTIVE is what I think i'm going to call it.

Well that's cool that your starting your own business and all. I didn't mean to insult you or what not, just stating my opinion. So I apologize if there are any bad feelings that my comments may/will cause. I just don't see why you are making something that does not need to be re-made. If you made something for the prelude or any other car that is needed since no one else makes a particular part or becuase there is a flaw in the current limited selection of parts then I totally understand. Like forbidden made the short shifter due to the lack of TRUE shifters (not adapters) made for the prelude/accord. Also along w/ his cooling plate that was because no other company provided one for the prelude. All in all like I said before, if it floats your boat, best of luck.

pr1mo_13 · 01-13-2006, 10:19 AM

well, i'm not really starting it because a Lack of parts for preludes, but more so just because I like designing stuff and since I first used one i've been somewhat obsessed with a cnc machine and I work all day on autocad... i just started designing stuff, and right now the only thing holding me back is the capital investment (to stock all these parts) and time to get a website going so I'm not just advertising on message boards and by word of mouth..