Critical Lowering Questions... (Dr. James?) - Honda Prelude Forum

SLICK96 · 11-14-2001, 10:29 PM

Regarding lowering a 4G Lude, I've got some serious questions. My ride is lowered currently on Neuspeed Sport springs, and Koni yellows. I've got a camber kit, but only for the front. In terms of stiffening things up a bit, I've got a Neuspeed strut tower bar, and Neuspeed front and rear sway bars. The car handles like it's on rails, and then some--I've already outhandled most everything out there.

Here's where the critical questions come in. I used to have my car pretty low (on the lowest perches) ... it was SLAMMED! I bottomed out on everything, and scrapped on everything in sight. The car is so stiff that the rear sway bar TORE OUT of the frame on the left side!!! I raised the car, and then added the sway bars. How can I safely slam the car, and prevent any more frame damage than that which I currently have? I had the rear sway bar bracket welded to the frame, b/c the bolts wouldn't hold anymore, no matter what reinforcement I had done--the bolts came out twice! I want to have my car pretty low, but I don't know how to do it safely. I have 2-finger gaps all around, and I want to go lower, but don't want to jack my ride up. Any advice/words of wisdom??? Should I just stay where I'm at??

H23Lude · 11-15-2001, 02:50 AM

damn i dont know how you managed to rip off your sway bar?

I dont think it should just rip out b/c its too stiff? Maybe if you scraped on something and it ripped off. (maybe i'm just not understanding you) My guess is that it was too low that you were probably riding on your bumpstops. But anyway you lower it..it will still scrape and stuff.

i have koni/ground control setup. Mine is slammed pretty low too (tucking my tires a little) with no problems. My advice is just be more careful driving. Or maybe try going to coilovers. sorry i wasnt much help..

gills · 11-15-2001, 08:38 AM

Hey slick, do you have any pics of your car when it was on it's lowest perches? I have the sport springs with illuminas and i would like it to be a little lower. I don't want to get stiffer or lower springs because the sports springs are a perfect ride for the street especially in NY(unlike sleeve coilovers). I was just wondering, what perch do you have them set on now with the 2 finger gap?

In any case, for your situation you may have to go with a more aggressive spring that's stiffer and lower. The extra stiffness will keep your car from bottoming out better but it'll sacrifice ride comfort. Go with a regular lowering spring instead of sleeves. With a regular spring you keep the progressive rate so it can absorb small bumps but the more you push them, the stiffer they get. It's your call.
H23A, you're slammed with your GCs but they are much stiffer and less prone to bottoming out. On the other hand, GCs handle bumps and everyday street crap like garbage. Don't tell me i'm wrong because i used to have them on my car and i took them out for the sport springs and the difference is like night and day. I may not be as low as i was but the way my car rides now makes me more than happy of getting rid of them. I sacrificed a little handling but the sport springs are already enough for the street to begin with but i don't have that "slammed" look that probably hurts handling more than benefits it.
If you're into competition then go with ground controls slick.

H23Lude · 11-15-2001, 02:00 PM

gills yeh i agree with what you said. I been through 3 different suspension setups but i like my koni/gc the best. I had tokico/prokits first and it was pretty good but not low enough. So i got tokico/sportlines and the ride was similiar to my prokits. Now i have koni/gc (400f/300r) and it doesnt ride any worse than my tokico/sportline setup. (maybe just a little but its very tolerable) I think the koni really help out the ride on bumps and stuff. and my setup now handles better than before even that its lower now. If i would have used my tokico the ride would be like crap. The streets here are crap also but my ride is very tolerable and i'm happy with it.

gills · 11-15-2001, 07:07 PM

Cool h23, i'm actually this [-] close to buying some koni yellows so i can lower my car a little more and also because they are a better shock than my illuminas. I have to look into it more...we'll see..

Tom

SLICK96 · 11-15-2001, 08:15 PM

What's up, Gills?! Thanks for the replies, everybody! I have pics of my ride when it was slammed, on the lowest perch, but they aren't scanned into my computer (need a scanner). Now, all springs are at the highest perch. The handling is GREAT, and the ride isn't too bumpy. I know that since I have Koni yellows, the ride height is adjustable, but A) It isn't exactly easy or time efficient to work on the rear suspension of a 4G Lude, and B) If I go to any of the lower perches, I fear that I may just go back to my old problem of bottoming out on every little crack or dip in the road. I think I'm kinda screwed. I think I drag too much on city streets to be any lower, w/o damaging my ride. The good thing about 2 finger gap is that I can pretty much drive on even the worst streets, and not have to drive like a complete p@ssy, you know??? I might not be winning any show-offs, but I still get mad comments when I'm rolling on my 17's. My sway bar ripped out of only the left rear frame, b/c the bracket bolts came loose, were overtorqued, and then ripped out completely. I've had it welded twice, and the 2nd job appears to be holding just fine. I almost hate loving my car as much as I do, b/c I cringe when any little thing goes wrong, or when any new sound develops. What to do, what to do...

gills · 11-16-2001, 01:16 AM

what's the gap increment with each perch? Like i said, i'm very close to getting the yellows so i can be just a little lower with even my neuspeed sports. Let me know..

gills

H23Lude · 11-16-2001, 01:39 AM

mine have three spring perch settings in the front, they are about .5" for each setting. (the middle is the normal setting) The rear has five settings, they are about .25" each setting.

gills · 11-16-2001, 01:46 AM

.25" in the rear?!? sh!t, that rocks. The rear is what's bothering me the most too. I think i have to pick up a set some time soon. Thanks H23.

Dr. James · 11-16-2001, 04:05 PM

I have the same exact set up on my car, and I have never had any of the problems that you describe with the bottoming out and such. I also have the Neuspeed Sway's F&R. I have the old 28mm rear bar. Neuspeed stopped making this one because of the problem that you described. I actually made some brakcets out of some aluminum billet and welded them to the frame. This increased the strength in that weak area. I did this prior to installing the Sway bar, and I have never had a problem. This bar has been all my preludes, and I have never had a problem. I have my Koni's on the lowest perch, with Neuspeed sports, and I don't scrap on anything, I have never bottomed out either.

gills · 11-16-2001, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. James
I have the same exact set up on my car, and I have never had any of the problems that you describe with the bottoming out and such. I also have the Neuspeed Sway's F&R. I have the old 28mm rear bar. Neuspeed stopped making this one because of the problem that you described. I actually made some brakcets out of some aluminum billet and welded them to the frame. This increased the strength in that weak area. I did this prior to installing the Sway bar, and I have never had a problem. This bar has been all my preludes, and I have never had a problem. I have my Koni's on the lowest perch, with Neuspeed sports, and I don't scrap on anything, I have never bottomed out either.

Doc, do you have just the regular koni yellows or do you have some kind of special koni yellow? I'm really starting to want some koni yellows but i would like to know what's best to do. What do you recommend?

SLICK96 · 11-16-2001, 08:40 PM

Dr. James,
Thanks for the reply. Regarding the bottoming out problem I used to have when my ride was at the lowest perches, and the problem I occasionally experience w/ really bad hits at high speeds (those ones you don't see coming when driving in the dark...), I think it might result from my bump stops. I didn't personally install my struts and springs, so I don't know the status of the bump stops currently on my car. Could the bump stops being cut too far (or not far enough) be the reason for the bottoming out? Also, this might sound really stupid, but is it possible to change out springs/struts if the rear sway bar brackets are welded to the frame? I'm using the stock Neuspeed brackets, and, like you, I have the old 28mm sway bar.

Dr. James · 11-17-2001, 02:09 PM

There shouldn't be any problem with the removing the rear struts with the sway bar brackets welded in place. I haven't had any problems with it. I never modified the bump stops in my car. I didn't see a need for it. As the prelude has a pretty good amount of travel already. Even lowered it has a decent amount of travel. i really don't know what your problem could be. You could have your Koni's revalved or shortened. I had this done on my last set of Koni's. I sent them to TrueChoice suspensions and they did the work.
Gills, the current set of Koni's that I have are stock. They haven't been modified at all.

gills · 11-17-2001, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. James
Gills, the current set of Koni's that I have are stock. They haven't been modified at all.

Do the stock ones come with 5 perch settings in the rear or is that just the "neuspeed" ones that someone mentioned earlier?

Dr. James · 11-18-2001, 03:19 PM

That is only on the Neuspeed ones. And the settings are very close together. You can get about .75" in the rear, and about .25" in the front. That is the same for the neuspeed and the regular ones. But the Neuspeed has 2 more spots. So I guess you can fine tune your settings a little more. the Nuespeed ones also have a 25mm shorter case than the stockers. Which is supposed to aid in ride quality. I would rather save my money and just buy the stock koni's from Shox.com. the price is better, and the ride quality is also the same IMO. I got my Koni's from Shox.com for 475 shipped.

chrisskim · 11-18-2001, 06:34 PM

i had my 4th gen with a 4" drop. it was as slammed as possible cuz i was scraping on everything, even the shiny bumps that separate lanes on the highway (forgot what they are called). anyways as long as you are careful you should be okay, you'll just scrape everything under yer car but you shouldnt damage it as long as you arent careless. as for the swaybar, i what you mean about it ripping out cuz i almost did the same. you just have to be careful and you cant take speed bumps straight on. as long as you take them at an angle, the bar doesnt get stuck to the back of them. other than that you should be fine. but also look out for cops, that's why i had to raise my car back up. he pulled me over and decided my car was too low when he couldnt stick his foot underneath it.

SLICK96 · 11-19-2001, 09:23 PM

DAYAMMMMMMNNNNNNNN, Bro! 4" drop?!? That's f@cking insane!!!! OUCH!!!!!! I had mine dropped about 2.5-2.75" when I had the Neuspeed sports set on the lowest perch on my Koni Yellows, and I thought I had it rough. I was bottoming out over every earthquake-damaged bridge on the 101!!! It was so damn painful. Once I raised it back up and put a camber kit on the front, life was much better ... 'til my rear sway bar ripped itself out of the frame (not from dragging or hitting stuff). I like it lifted up a bit, even though some might consider the semi-2-finger-gap a bit unsightly ... I'll take them in drags on the average sh!tty city streets anyway. Our cars just look so much better low, though. I'll never know what to do. I'm still considering the Neuspeed race springs ... don't know, though. PEACE!!!

chrisskim · 11-20-2001, 01:02 AM

yea i knew my car was a little too low when my mud guards were scraping everytime my car was moving, no matter how smooth. they were just touching the ground the whole time. i'll admit that everything under my car has gotten hit pretty hard at some time when my car was that low but no real damages. no matter how careful you drive you will still scrape on stuff every now and then. fortunately it usually sounds worse than it really is. looking at my car now, the most serious damage that my car has taken from 25,000 miles of being that low is that the heatshield underneath my cat is scraped up to hell. i guess that's what was causing most of the sparks that occasionally came outta the underside of my car

SLICK96 · 11-20-2001, 09:08 AM

Hahahahah!!!! That's pretty much what happened to me, even though I wasn't that low. Would taking the whole heat shield off be a bad idea? I remember catching air on the 101, over the bridges, racing at night. I could also get one side of my car to lift off of the ground a bit when canyon carving like crazy. CRAZINESS!!!

chrisskim · 11-21-2001, 01:55 AM

i actually think that keeping the heatshield on is a better idea. i mean with the heatshield, you scrape a little bit more than without one. but with it on, you're only scraping a fairly useless piece of metal. i would rather have sparks flying outta my heatshield which does nothing for my car than from the cat converter. i was looking under my car a little bit back and i took out my exhaust and i have to say as scraped up as the shield is, the cat is in perfect condition (cept for the fact that it's hollow inside)