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Old 03-10-2009, 05:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Stock and E85

Okay so I've just spent some time reading about e85 over on honda-tech. I've gathered that it doesn't really eat up fuel lines,pump, tank etc. I do realize the mpg are lower. I've gathered that our ecu can handle the e85. So what keeps us from throwing a full tank of e85 in our car? I read something about leaning out but nothing definitive. What exactly would it take to run e85 in a stock lude? My account on honda-tech is expired or something and I can't post there. Please I don't want to hear it'll eat up my engine lines etc unless you REALLY know what you're talking about. Keep the I heard or I thought stuff to yourself please.
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Old 03-10-2009, 07:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
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How to Run Your Car on E85 Ethanol - Flex-Fuel Economy Conversions - Popular Mechanics

Quote:
Q:
We read numerous stories about the benefits of E85 fuel for cars, and I for one would like to use it, since it is becoming more available. But the service manuals for my ’03 Acura and ’07 Hyundai both state to use no more than 10 percent alcohol content in fuel.

Are there any fixes being produced by auto manufacturers or others to utilize this fuel that won’t violate the manufacturer’s warranty? If not, it’s all hot air and useless effort, as there are hardly any cars on the road today that can employ its pollution-reducing benefits.

A:
No car manufacturer provides a kit to change a vehicle over to FFV (flex-fuel-vehicle) status. E85 cars have corrosion-resistant fuel systems with upgraded plastic and rubber parts and a fuel sensor that can determine the proportion of ethanol to gasoline. The fuel injection computer—different from the one non-FFVs use—can then inject the correct amount of fuel. This is necessary because it takes a larger volume of ethanol than straight gasoline to run your engine.

There are aftermarket kits, but they do not use this sensor and can only trim fuel mixture ratios by using the oxygen sensor, which I think isn’t adequate—and neither do the car manufacturers or they would have done it this way and saved the cost of the sensor. My suggestion is to go to epa.gov to look up what vehicles on the market are already available as FFVs, and buy one. According to the National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition, there are already 6 million cars on the road that are E85 capable.
Don't bother.
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Old 03-10-2009, 07:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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So I would need at min to run a larger injector size and would HAVE to tune it? Stock ecu won't work and a piggyback won't cut it either? Everyone says don't bother or it's not worth it but considering that it IS made in the states. Yes I realize it will get worse gas mileage, but it would also burn cleaner and cooler.
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Old 03-10-2009, 07:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Old 03-10-2009, 07:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
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But... why?

Worse gas mileage = have to fuel up more often = negate potential savings of E85. Plus the cost to get all the components you need to hack together to get it working

Might as well try to swap in the hybrid system from an Accord or Civic
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Devil's advocate: more power if done well

The main issue is duration timing of the injectors. Plus the EA85 is much more corrosive.

Also EA85 is a horrbile idea, and in no way a solution for energy problems. It isn't eco friendly either if that gets your rocks off.
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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OY. That's not what I said. I could care less about burning the regular gasoline. MY jeep grand wagoneer was a BLAST w/ the 360 getting 9mpg average, lol. It's the fact that it is a fuel produced in the US. Apparently everyone thinks it's going to eat lines and seals, it is not corrosive enough of a mix to require changing all the lines. Now I want to keep obdII and my atts so if it would require dyno tuning then it's not going to be worth it to me. The cleaner burn is to keep the engine(and maybe my exhaust pipe cleaner). Why is it that when this subject is brought up 50% of post are about it "not being worth it" or the fuel "being a scam". Is everybody that up in arms about it? I have no problem with regular gasoline. But as a domestic source of fuel that keep money in the US instead of going to oil sheiks who buy airbuses and staff cardiothoracic surgeons on flights, if it's not terribly difficult or expensive to switch, I might consider it.

I kind of resent the smart ass remark about trying to swap an accord or civic hybrid too. I never said I was trying to be efficient or trying to save the planet, if I was I wouldn't be driving my prelude. Please quit trying to make yourself laugh.

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Old 03-10-2009, 08:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Wow everyone is giving you sh*tty answers.

The real answer is that E85 will give you more power, but only if you tune for it. Stock it won't do crap. If you want to stay OBD2, then you would have to use a piggyback. Ideally you would use a standalone for a better tune anyways.

The stock injectors already run about 90% duty cycle at redline, so you definitely need to upsize them if you run E85 (or artificially lower the redline). The ECU can compensate automatically for about ~25% injector flow change, but any more and you are in trouble.

E85 only really pays of in FI motors anyways. I would never do it with an NA motor unless I was racing.
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks artifex. That is a solid answer, and that's why you are a mod I'm assuming.
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