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Old 02-03-2002, 01:21 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Actually, all of you are somewhat wrong, and somewhat right. I just busted out one of the old SCC's I had and it had a fat test called POWER, WEIGHT, GRIP!, and they are testing the 1/4 mile time and speed with 16, 17, and 18 inch wheels. Anyways, the 18 inch wheel and tire combo actually weighed less than the 17 inch wheel and tire combo due to the 18's weighing 1 pound more than the 17's but the tires for the 18's weighed 2 pounds less than those of the 17's.

What they concluded from the testing were that ......

"The fact the 18-inch wheel was slower, despite being slightly lighter than the 17 suggests that rotational inertia is, indeed, a significant factor in acceleration. As weight is moved outward, rotational inertia increases with the square of the distance from the center of the wheel. Not only was the wheel rim a half-inch farther from the center (which alone would account for a 12-percent increase in rotational inertia), but the 18-inch wheel was 8 inches wide while the others were 7, making the rim a larger percentage of the wheel's weight.

But wait. Going from 16-inch wheels to 17-inch wheels also added weight and increasedd rotational inertia, so why wasn't there a bigger difference there? This inconsistency hints at the fact that there is some noise in our data. Even with a consistent car and a consistent driver, there are too many changing factors in a quarter-mile run to expect exact repeatability. While the trend seems correct, random variations seem to have slightly overstated the difference between the 17 and 18 inch wheels, and understated the difference between the 16s and 17s.

This is a clip from under a picture of three wheels on scales.

Contrary to popular belief, bigger isn't always heavier. All of our Enkei/BFGoodrich wheel/tire combos were relatively light. The 16s weighed in at 44.4 lbs, but the 17s and 18s were 47 and 46 pounds respectively."

All were both wheels and tires.

Case closed. How far the weight from the center does play a role along how much weight is added.

BUT, the difference was minimal.

LAP TIMES AND PEAK SPEED BY WHEEL SIZE
2000 Mitsubishi Lancer
Wheel Size Lap Time Straight Speed

16 inch 1:03.7 96.1 mph

17 inch 1:03.2 95.5 mph

18 inch 1:03.9 95.0 mph

QUARTER-MILE TIMES BY WHEEL SIZE
2000 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT
Wheel Size 1/4 et/mph

16 inch 15.5 sec. @ 89.4

17 inch 15.5 sec. @ 89.0

18 inch 15.6 sec. @ 87.9



Case closed.

So from what I've gathered the wheels I plan to purchase will be 18 inchers that'll weigh less than the stock tire/wheel combo will just about equal out, and should expect same times as with stockers. I might even return better 1/4 mile times due to the fact the tires will have much more grip than the stock tires. So who knows...


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Old 02-03-2002, 01:49 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by menace
Actually, all of you are somewhat wrong, and somewhat right. I just busted out one of the old SCC's I had and it had a fat test called POWER, WEIGHT, GRIP!, and they are testing the 1/4 mile time and speed with 16, 17, and 18 inch wheels. Anyways, the 18 inch wheel and tire combo actually weighed less than the 17 inch wheel and tire combo due to the 18's weighing 1 pound more than the 17's but the tires for the 18's weighed 2 pounds less than those of the 17's.

What they concluded from the testing were that ......

"The fact the 18-inch wheel was slower, despite being slightly lighter than the 17 suggests that rotational inertia is, indeed, a significant factor in acceleration. As weight is moved outward, rotational inertia increases with the square of the distance from the center of the wheel. Not only was the wheel rim a half-inch farther from the center (which alone would account for a 12-percent increase in rotational inertia), but the 18-inch wheel was 8 inches wide while the others were 7, making the rim a larger percentage of the wheel's weight.

But wait. Going from 16-inch wheels to 17-inch wheels also added weight and increasedd rotational inertia, so why wasn't there a bigger difference there? This inconsistency hints at the fact that there is some noise in our data. Even with a consistent car and a consistent driver, there are too many changing factors in a quarter-mile run to expect exact repeatability. While the trend seems correct, random variations seem to have slightly overstated the difference between the 17 and 18 inch wheels, and understated the difference between the 16s and 17s.

This is a clip from under a picture of three wheels on scales.

Contrary to popular belief, bigger isn't always heavier. All of our Enkei/BFGoodrich wheel/tire combos were relatively light. The 16s weighed in at 44.4 lbs, but the 17s and 18s were 47 and 46 pounds respectively."

All were both wheels and tires.

Case closed. How far the weight from the center does play a role along how much weight is added.

BUT, the difference was minimal.

LAP TIMES AND PEAK SPEED BY WHEEL SIZE
2000 Mitsubishi Lancer
Wheel Size Lap Time Straight Speed

16 inch 1:03.7 96.1 mph

17 inch 1:03.2 95.5 mph

18 inch 1:03.9 95.0 mph

QUARTER-MILE TIMES BY WHEEL SIZE
2000 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT
Wheel Size 1/4 et/mph

16 inch 15.5 sec. @ 89.4

17 inch 15.5 sec. @ 89.0

18 inch 15.6 sec. @ 87.9



Case closed.

So from what I've gathered the wheels I plan to purchase will be 18 inchers that'll weigh less than the stock tire/wheel combo will just about equal out, and should expect same times as with stockers. I might even return better 1/4 mile times due to the fact the tires will have much more grip than the stock tires. So who knows...



Good post!
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Old 02-03-2002, 03:09 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by menace
Actually, all of you are somewhat wrong, and somewhat right.
Actually I was all right.

I kinda figured weight was more important than size cuz my 15" winter tires are terrible for acceleration compared to my 16" stock.

Its also interesting to see how little a difference the 17 and 18" rims made for handling. You'd have figured they'd do better for track results...
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Old 02-03-2002, 03:45 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Sad day for a Prelude

Quote:
Originally posted by Nocturnal
R/T .667
60' 2.315
330 6.511
1/8 9.959
MPH 70.76
1000
1/4 15.462
MPH 90.18

I am very disappointed in my car. Guess it's time to go ahead and finish building my spare head. I have a really weak clutch, but I was running these times with my '99 SS...
PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE....
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Old 02-03-2002, 03:53 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flavour


Actually I was all right.

I kinda figured weight was more important than size cuz my 15" winter tires are terrible for acceleration compared to my 16" stock.

Its also interesting to see how little a difference the 17 and 18" rims made for handling. You'd have figured they'd do better for track results...
Well, technically you weren't wrong per say, but half of your statement was semi-false.

Quote:
Originally posted by Flavour

you guys are forgetting that tires are heavy, and the further from the center the tires are, the more work it takes to turn them
The tires weighed 2 pounds less for 18s than 17s, and that weight isn't further from the center than the 17s because the tires were thinner equaling the same diameter. In a lot of ways there is no right or wrong because the differences are minimal....

....Hence the somewhat right, and somewhat wrong statement.

Tire sizes that were used:

225/50/16
225/45/17
225/40/18

It's all for ****s and giggles, I don't care if you're right or wrong.
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Old 02-03-2002, 05:13 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by menace


Well, technically you weren't wrong per say, but half of your statement was semi-false.



The tires weighed 2 pounds less for 18s than 17s, and that weight isn't further from the center than the 17s because the tires were thinner equaling the same diameter. In a lot of ways there is no right or wrong because the differences are minimal....

....Hence the somewhat right, and somewhat wrong statement.

Tire sizes that were used:

225/50/16
225/45/17
225/40/18

It's all for ****s and giggles, I don't care if you're right or wrong.
I know, but I care, cuz I'm always right, and I still am. I'm not comparing the weight of the tires between sizes, I'm comparing the weight of the tires as compared to the rim. So the thinner the sidewall of the tire, the further out from the center of the rim the weight is gonna be.

But yes, according to the test done the differences are minimal. Although to some .1 is huge...
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Old 02-03-2002, 05:39 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Just thought I'd stir the pot... They did these test with 225/40/18's... I have 215/35/18's
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Old 02-04-2002, 01:52 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Re: Sad day for a Prelude

You still haven't answered my question...Then what does SS mean?



Quote:
Originally posted by Nocturnal


How many auto's have you ever seen with a clutch?

Last edited by Mr.RiceAdvisor; 02-04-2002 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 02-04-2002, 10:33 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I noticed, you say a 99' SS, and your sig says 97' 5 spd, do you have two preludes or something?

If you do, what a lucky guy
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Old 02-04-2002, 10:44 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Greek Lude
You are sooooo wrong. When I get back tommorow from my saturday night partying I'll elaborate.
What??? Wheel diameter does not effect acceleration??? I hope you're not going to refer to a Curious George book on physics for your overdue explanation.
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