Problems Going Into First? - Honda Prelude Forum

lude&lascivious · 01-26-2012, 11:59 PM

Hey Gang,

I've been reading a while. I've read about problems similar to mine but, I haven't been able to find a definite answer.

Occasionally, but often enough to become more than annoying, my car won't go into first. Sometimes I feel I have to force it in. On one occasion it grinded in. Most others, I have to be at a full stop and I would just re-engage (double-clutch) the clutch and try again. The clutch pedal doesn't go soft or hard. It doesn't do this with any other gear.

It was a bit embarrassing at first, when the light turns green and I can't get the car into 1st, but now it's a real concern. I'm not sure if it's the Master/Slave Cylinders or the clutch itself. I'm not really sure how to check if the cylinders are leaking or how to isolate the problem.

Any pointers on where to start diagnosing this would be very appreciated.

Thanks.

Folfin · 01-27-2012, 07:05 AM

Mine will do this sometimes too and I know other manual transmission cars sometimes just do it when they get old. To get around it, I try and let the car roll forward or back while trying to get into first. If that doesn't work put it in neutral and rev the engine slightly then let it die down and put it in first. Finally I will sometimes throw it in third then back to first and that almost always does the trick.

I know I'm not helping fix the problem but at least there's ways around it. I think I'm going to change the tranny fluid and put some Lucas in it and see if it helps anything.

Rycon · 01-27-2012, 08:06 AM

I agree with Folfin, it has happened on all the manual transmissions I have had.

Like Folfin said, try to let it roll forward, but ultimately get into the habit of double clutching when you feel resistance, which is just pressing the clutch in/out once before shifting.

Also make sure you aren't holding in the clutch while stopping , for example when you need to stop don't press in the clutch and HOLD while you brake, this makes it harder to get into first once you are ready to go and also wears on the throw out bearing. Get in Neutral and brake to a stop (You can downshift to use engine braking if that's your preference too, but always try to be in neutral before shifting to first.)

lude&lascivious · 01-27-2012, 11:11 AM

Thanks for the replies!

This has only happened to one other car and that one wouldn't go into first at all. I had to replace the entire clutch.

Is there a specific part, here, that I should look into replacing?

dblair · 01-27-2012, 12:33 PM

I've found that if I slide it into 1st while I'm still rolling up to a stop I can pull it into neutral and let out the clutch while I'm at a stop and it will always go back into first.

All the responses to the OP (including mine) are on how to deal with it. I'd like to hear something on what causes it. I don't think it's clutch related because it happened after I installed a new clutch. Might be Master or Slave related but the fact it doesn't happen all the time makes me think more like synchro or something. Other possibilities I've considered are the fact I don't run the dampener or maybe worn bushings at the shifter or the tranny. I've considered replacing the bushings to see if it makes a difference. I think I read somewhere somebody makes aftermarket bushings. Anybody else with the problem eliminated the dampener? Anybody know about the bushings?

DaHonga · 01-27-2012, 02:25 PM

I've replaced my master/slave clutch cylinder as well as swapping for TWM cable shifter bushings and still have this problem. I usually either put it into second and then back up to first or just do the double clutch trick.

dblair · 01-27-2012, 05:11 PM

Good information on the MC/SC and the bushings. Are you still running the dampener?

Double clutching is a hold over from the old "crash box" days. Before synchros. The fact that it works for this problem strongly indicates a synchro problem.

lude&lascivious · 01-27-2012, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dblair

...I'd like to hear something on what causes it. I don't think it's clutch related because it happened after I installed a new clutch. Might be Master or Slave related but the fact it doesn't happen all the time makes me think more like synchro or something. Other possibilities I've considered are the fact I don't run the dampener or maybe worn bushings at the shifter or the tranny. I've considered replacing the bushings to see if it makes a difference. I think I read somewhere somebody makes aftermarket bushings. Anybody else with the problem eliminated the dampener? Anybody know about the bushings?

Again, thank you all for your responses! All of you have perhaps saved me a good deal of money and, for sure, precious amounts of time.

I decided to take the afternoon and put in the TWM Shifter Bushings I ordered a while back. During my test drive, I still experienced this annoying 1st gear problem, so it's not the bushings. They're a nice mod and there's a write up on here that help me do the install. The smaller cable was a PITA because of hoses getting all in the way. Anyways, I installed the base bushings (center console) as well as both of the cable bushings (under the airbox). My rubber bushings seemed to be in very good condition and there isn't much improvement as far as feeling, etc when compared to rubber bushings in good condition. Perhaps if my rubber bushings were deteriorated, it might be "night and day" like some have testified.

I had planned on changing out my master/slave cylinders. I bought the car not too long ago and the dealer installed a new OEM clutch. I was thinking of changing my clutch/flywheel out because of this 1st gear problem. But thanks to your posts, I'm fairly certain it's not the clutch.

Perhaps its the syncros? If anyone happens to get their syncros repaired please posts impressions and whether it has fixed this type of issue?

As for me, I think I will probably go the path of least expenses and just change my tranny and clutch fluids out. Until then, I think I'll do like Vin Diesel recommended and "Double-Clutch" like I ought to!

minilogoguy18 · 01-27-2012, 06:16 PM

Instead of guessing you can troubleshoot, does it only have trouble going into first or is it all gears when stopped with the clutch pedal on the floor? If it's the individual gear then it's something internal like the fork or synchronizer.

lude&lascivious · 01-27-2012, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minilogoguy18

Instead of guessing you can troubleshoot, does it only have trouble going into first or is it all gears when stopped with the clutch pedal on the floor? If it's the individual gear then it's something internal like the fork or synchronizer.

Thanks. Yes. I'd rather not guess.

It only happens with first gear. All other gears, including reverse, have no issues.

dblair · 01-27-2012, 07:24 PM

I'm old. I drove cars double clutching was required. Shouldn't have to do that on a Prelude or any other Honda for that matter. Course, what ever works....

Sure like to hear some dampener comments.

Rycon · 01-28-2012, 03:36 PM

Very few try to get synchros repaired.. it is both too costly and difficult to do, cheaper and safer just to buy a new tranny.

Only thing you can try is synchromesh tranny oil.

minilogoguy18 · 01-28-2012, 05:09 PM

Rebuilding 5 speed Honda trans axles is super simple if you have tools and are capable of dropping the transmission, all you need is the book. Rebuilding an auto now that's a whole different story.

The first time a friend and I rebuilt his GS-R trans it was a success, really not hard.

lude&lascivious · 01-28-2012, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rycon

Very few try to get synchros repaired.. it is both too costly and difficult to do, cheaper and safer just to buy a new tranny.

Only thing you can try is synchromesh tranny oil.

Thanks Rycon! I will pick some of this up when I swap out my tranny oil! Any specific weight you recommend?