Well...after clearing out all my wifes xmas junk out of the garage, i decided to install my Neuspeed rear sway bar. The install is simple, in theory..a direct bolt on. But I did encounter some problems that you should avoid, or things to do to make it easier.
By far, the biggest PITA was the third bolt that attaches the drivers side bracket to the frame (the one that is used for the gas tank filler tube bracket). On ntpog, they do say this is difficult, but mine was a real mess. I ended up stripping the hole and had to re-thread it and use a bigger bolt.
Easiest part was removing and reinstalling the end-links...just simply was easier than I thought. No allen key needed.
Install tip #1 (gas tank filler tube bracket bolt):
Remove the bolt from the frame. Spray some wd40 on the tank filler tube bracket itself so that you can slide the bracket into a position where you can access and remove the other bolt that holds the bracket onto the filler tube. Once removed (you have to pry it open), switch it around so that the bolt head is facing the rear of the car...and reinstall it. By doing this, the bracket is in a much better position to bend and to align the holes in order to attach the sway bar bracket to the frame.(link to pics is below)
Install tip #2 (less torque for 3rd bolts (smaller ones) on frame brackets):
These are smaller than the other bolts used on the bracket and do not need to be torqued to 16 ft lbs. I used 11-12 ft lbs which seemed sufficient (you may want to check the Helms).
Install tip #3: (muffler):
That big @ss thing is just in the way. I ended up scratching my new bar just trying to fit it around that tight spot. If I was better prepared to do so, I would have just lowered the muffler out of the way.
Install tip #4 (torque some parts as you go):
Torque the end-links to the bar before you install it. You have no room once its in. Same thing for the bracket bolts on the frame...torque them before you install the bushings/brackets.
Install tip #5 (install bar first...before frame brackets):
Especially the passengers side! Just position the bar in first, attach the end-links, then install the brackets. This way you have much more wiggle room to get the bar in place. Use a jack stand in the middle of the bar to hold it up while installing the brackets.
First drive review:
Very subtle change...but the steering feels more precise and the rear-end seems to bring the car around a bit. Just seems like the car goes into and out of corners better. Btw...this is with stock dampers...upgrades coming soon. Under 30 the car has very little body roll,,if any at all. Above that and the stock dampers just can't hold the car back.
With Neuspeed Sport springs and Koni shocks set 3/4 turn hard-it is really nice. I have a favorite road to test on in a park-and the turns are very tight. On the road course at Pocono the car really did show its stuff and was very predictable. The car does not lean like it used to. You are correct that it is more precise. I do not have the front bar on the car.
Nice writeup BTW. Happy 2002
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Grandpa's toys-modded suspensions and a few other tweaks
'99 Prelude SS - A sweet song in motion SOLD
'89 CRX Si= SCCA/NASA/PDA ITA #99
'03 Dodge Dakota Club Cab (4.7L)-gonna tow
Thanks to KONI, KIRK Racing, Longacre, UPRacing, Summit, Racing Electronics and my crew.
Originally posted by jc836 With Neuspeed Sport springs and Koni shocks set 3/4 turn hard-it is really nice. I have a favorite road to test on in a park-and the turns are very tight. On the road course at Pocono the car really did show its stuff and was very predictable. The car does not lean like it used to. You are correct that it is more precise. I do not have the front bar on the car.
Nice writeup BTW. Happy 2002
I just ordered Neuspeed Konis and GCs (450f/380r). I drive aggresively and on canyon roads alot and thought the sport springs would be too soft. Race would be nice, but too low. So I chose GCs instead
Originally posted by Kool-Lude First drive review:
Very subtle change...but the steering feels more precise and the rear-end seems to bring the car around a bit. Just seems like the car goes into and out of corners better. Btw...this is with stock dampers...upgrades coming soon. Under 30 the car has very little body roll,,if any at all. Above that and the stock dampers just can't hold the car back.
Second drive review:
Much more noticeable than I orginally thought. Corners MUCH better than before. It feels even better when not cornering.
However...I did notice some noise coming from back there. One noise sounds like the bushings and other noise sounds like metal tapping on the frame or something Both sounds are just occasional, but I'm a bit worried about the tapping sound. Do the end-links just reposition themselves as you drive? The end-links couldn't be hitting anything...could they???
Another thing thats sort of strange...the car feels bouncier on the freeway, in areas that it normally was ok. Could this be because the stiffer rear end is causing the rear stock dampers to work more than before...thus stiffer dampers would handle the stiffer rear sway better?
Also, my car seems to pull a bit to the left...but I'm not sure if this is just my imagination. I may be noticing the road grooves more now than before because the steering is more precise and the whole car may be following the road grooves more now than before. Does this make any sense? Am I suppose to get an alignment after the rear sway install?
Sweet writeups dude. How did you get off the endlinks without using the alan key hole? I was doing some suspension work and needed to tighten one down and the key hole striped. Did you just use the big air power?
__________________
If you only knew the power of the Lude...
'94 Porsche 968 - National PCA HPDE Instructor
'98 Red Base Prelude - 02 & 03 DSP Champion - Sold
"Straights are for fast cars. Turns are for fast drivers." - SCCA Solo2
um doesnt it make sense to move something if its in the way. i automatically moved the muffler when i saw it was too hard. i just took it off the hangers. the driver side good idea to lube it but if you remove most of the sheild for the fuel it will be a breeze
oh yeah that clunk is it hitting the exhaust. dont jack up the car and look at it your muffler should be scratched near the end link. the bushings have to be tightened alot. i put 40lbs of torque on it and no more prob. try this.
jack up the car and position the br correctly. then use some whiteout and mark the parts near the bushing. now dive for a lil and look. i noticed on mine it moved so i knew wat was wrong
How did you get off the endlinks without using the alan key hole? I was doing some suspension work and needed to tighten one down and the key hole striped. Did you just use the big air power?
The nut for the upper mounting point (inside the fender) came off fairly easy with a cross(+) tire iron. Once the swaybar was removed, I used the bar as leverage with my foot holding it down, to remove the other nut. This seemed simple and easy...I hope this method didn't screw anything up. I really didn't think that the allen key was needed .
Darth (or anyone)... maybe you can help me with this. I'm concerned with two areas of my install.
1) I torqued all nuts and bolts with the rear end off the ground.
The Helms says this.. "Any bolts or nut connected to rubber mounts or bushings should be tightened witht the vehicle on the ground." The only nuts I torqued on the ground were the wheel lugs. I asked Neuspeed about this before I started and they said to torque everything off the ground.
2) I torqued the lower endlink nuts to the bar before installing it. Then attached the upper part to the mounting point in the fender and torqued it down. All work done while the car was up in the air. Helms says..."Before tightening the flange nut, position the ball joint pin in the middle of its range of travel, with the suspension under vehicle load." I didn't really try to position the ball joint pins at all...figured the endlinks would adjust themselves into the proper position once I drove it. Also, as I did with all the nuts/bolts...I torqued the endlink nut without vehicle load.
I'm really worried now that I did these steps wrong ... any thoughts?
Originally posted by BoYgUaN oh yeah that clunk is it hitting the exhaust. dont jack up the car and look at it your muffler should be scratched near the end link. the bushings have to be tightened alot. i put 40lbs of torque on it and no more prob. try this.
The Helms shows 16 ft lbs for the bushing brackets...so thats what I used . The bushing brackets are not touching the bar mounting brackets at 16 ft lb, which did concern me, but I figured that the bushings were just real fat and thats the way it was suppose to be.
Quote:
Originally posted by BoYgUaN jack up the car and position the br correctly. then use some whiteout and mark the parts near the bushing. now dive for a lil and look. i noticed on mine it moved so i knew wat was wrong
So what did you do to correct it...I am soooo confused right now. I didn't know that there was any more involved with the install other than "just bolt it on". How did I miss all this?
Also...I wrote my above post (with my two concerns) as you wrote yours. Can you read what I said and let me know if you have anything more to add.
Thank you so much for the help...i'm feeling awful right now...I hope I didn't screw up my car .
remember this is not stock. stocks are softer bushings if u feel them. meaning less torque is required to flush it. neuspeed isnt which requires alot. i did either 30 something or 40 max on torque. the bracket to chassis is 18lb but bushing holder is more. i learned
Originally posted by BoYgUaN yep u are suppose to pisition them. thats prolly y it is metal clunking. 99% sure now. torque bushings down tight.
What I don't get is...don't they just move on their own? The ball joint pivots, so why wouldn't it just reposition itself after I tighten it down?
So how do I torque the nuts down under vehicle load...there is no room once the tires are on and the car is on the ground.
How do I position the endlinks correctly? Do I loosen both top and bottom endlink nuts and loosen the bushing nuts...then move the bar so that the endlinks are sort of centered where they mount?
Originally posted by BoYgUaN remember this is not stock. stocks are softer bushings if u feel them. meaning less torque is required to flush it. neuspeed isnt which requires alot. i did either 30 something or 40 max on torque. the bracket to chassis is 18lb but bushing holder is more. i learned
Where or how did you "learn" this. I really thought I did all the proper research before I did the install...but now I feel like an idiot. No instructions came from Neuspeed. Ntpog didn't say anything about torquing the bushings more than stock, or positioning the bar and endlinks.
trail and error learning. common sense too. if it moves it not tight enough.
just loosen the bushings and move the bar left to right. make sure the endlinks wont hit anything. so look on both sides they are suppose to be look the same. u know 1 side is a
\ so the other is a / make sense?
wat u can also do is lower it after repositining without tightening thebushings then look and see if they are touching or will hit anything.
it moves up and down on its own. does it make sense? if it moves left to right wats da point? look at the stock bar the bushings always stayed in 1 place. remember lube it good.
u cant torque on ground cuz we dont have a floor lift. just do 35 lbs it will be fine. u need a 10 wrench or something to hold the nut while u tighten the bolt. trust me more lbs and it wont move. after install mark it with white out to be sure and recheck if u hear noise or in a week of driving
Yeah, the possitioning of the ball joint in the middle of the travel is what I am working on righ now, but have kind of given up with the alan key hole stripped. I am open to suggestions on how to tighten that endlink more as I can not get any resistance to measure torque or even tighten or losen as it just spins in the ball joint now...
__________________
If you only knew the power of the Lude...
'94 Porsche 968 - National PCA HPDE Instructor
'98 Red Base Prelude - 02 & 03 DSP Champion - Sold
"Straights are for fast cars. Turns are for fast drivers." - SCCA Solo2
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Both sounds are just occasional, but I'm a bit worried about the tapping sound. Do the end-links just reposition themselves as you drive? The end-links couldn't be hitting anything...could they???
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