Hello,
I lowered my prelude with H&R Race Springs and took it to Honda to get it my alignment done. Here is a photo of my alignment specs, I was wondering how bad my negative camber is, and if this will have a serious impact on the wear of my tires.
I was also wondering what I can do to fix this neg camber. I have heard of camber adjustment bolts, are they very effective? Does the camber stay correct or do the bolts move around or anything? Is there any alternatives to these? Thanks a lot!
Mechanics don't zero out anything. They get it as close as they can to zero and within specs.
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Name: Jack-in-the-Box -|- Car: Meep-meep -|- 2001 EBP Type SH Gremlin Infested. Do Not Add Water. Seriously, DO NOT ADD WATER. RIP. To be replaced.
I do not need to explain anything to you.
My broken wings still strong enough to cross the ocean with.
My broken wings how far should I go drifting in the wind.
you wont need a camber kit. just get an alignment to set the toe.
the only "debate" of camber and toe tire wear is between those who understand tires and suspension and those who dont.
negative camber isnt a significant factor in tire wear. despite the seemingly obvious connection. tires wear by the amount of slip the rubber goes through as it transitions to and from contact with the pavement as it rolls. an incorrect toe setting will cause the tire to slip more, like the car was constantly turning as the tire shifts in direction between ground contact and back. an extreme example of tire slip in the fore-aft direction is doing a burnout. the effects of tire slip to tire wear is easy to comprehend. the same thing goes on in the lateral direction when the tire is forced to "turn" or twist at every revolution.
severe camber will not affect the tire slip nearly as much as it simply is flattening out in the normal direction a tire is designed to compress with no more tire slip than a regularly rolling tire. perhaps more on one side than the other. but consider also that the sidewalls flex and for most allowable camber angles still produce a contact patch full across the tread. even then, consider that a regular tire should last 30-60 thousand miles, especially if just rolling straight.
hondas in particular those with double wishbone suspension specifically control camber angles better than other cars and is also the reason why camber really isnt in need of "correction". in fact, negative camber is a good thing and to take away from it would take away from the great handling already designed in the suspension.
when a car is lowered, the ride height changes. when the ride height changes, the camber changes. when the camber changes, the toe changes. (it doesnt work in reverse) this is designed in the double wishbone suspension for better handling in the corners as the outside tire is loaded. therefore, when the ride height changes, the toe changes. and so the toe should be fixed.
for those who just put camber kits on after lowering, and then adjust them back to positive, also adjusted the toe back. so as a result, benefited in tire wear because the toe was changed closer to where it was previously. not because the camber was changed. even with a camber kit, a full alignment is still recommended, as theres no way to really to know where the camber or alignment really is. and its nonetheless important.
the only exception to the benefit of reducing negative camber is for those interested in maximizing straight line grip, as in drag racing. then you want as straight of a contact patch as possible, or something.
Such better information than preludepower.com. The thing that I find interesting is that according to the print out the OP posted 0mm rear toe would be in the red zone even though the stock spec is -2mm +or- 2mm. I got mine aligned 1mm toe out in the front and 1.4mm toe out in the rear. Most places don't like setting the toe out of spec but some, if you ask for a specific number, will set it at whatever you want. As for the camber kit read, it's so true ignorance of suspension functions that drive the purchase of camber kits. The scary thing about them is you don't know how long they are going to last.
When it comes to parts like suspension it's best to leave the stock stuff alone and only change parts like shocks, springs, bars. Otherwise you could be replacing something that was designed by an automaker with years of experience with something from a company that makes parts with questionable or unknown longevity.
Thanks for everyone's very helpful replies. I just have a few more questions..
Is there any way to see how bad your inner tire wear is over time? I have heard it can get as bad as blowing your tire if you don't replace it before that point, how can I tell when I need new tires?
Also should I get my alignment redone so I can zero out my rear toe? What are the benefits of having a zero toe? Does it just benefit tire wear or does it have other benefits too?
Thanks again.
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2001 Honda Prelude SE
Currently at 12x,xxx km
2. Zero toe sometimes isn't neccessarily a good thing. Sometimes having a little bit of toe will keep the car stable etc. It just depends what you want. If you want the best economy, you can zero out your toe.
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Toe in = stable, quick initial response but washes out shortly thereafter
Zero Toe = Car can be somewhat twitchy, grab cracks in the road, still fairly predictable turn in
Toe out = slow initial turn in followed by a snappy entry-mid corner response
Toe in is used on most, if not all, production cars as it is the most stable, progressive, and easy to control/predict.
Toe out is used mostly on race cars. On front wheel drive toe out in the rear causes the rear to take an initial radius larger than the front which in turns lets the rear end poke out early in the corner. This is done to enable a neutral mid corner feel and, if desired, a slight bit of exit oversteer. Toe out, especially in the rear, is very preferable for front wheel drive car on a road course but is extremely beneficial for autox. On the street, or in the hands of an amateur driver, can result in snap oversteer especially at higher speeds.
When using toe out you have to "predict" how much you need to throw the wheel to get the car to turn in because you get little or no feedback until the tires have been able to respond to your input. After doing my suspension an alignment I was testing it on a 100 mph downhill sweeping corner and I threw it a little bit too much and the rear end came out.
The whole toe thing is about tire slip angle. Toe in makes the initial response feel good because the tire already wants to go the direction the steering wheel is being turned. With toe out the tire is trying to go in the opposite direction of the turn being made so it takes the tire a bit of road to go from outward slip angle to inward slip angle to follow the turn being made. That's why the very first bit of turn in has null feedback, you're essentially winding the tire up the opposite direction.
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Was he just lazy?
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