I've been driving for a while and I thought I was doing good. Until I got in my friend's prelude, who has driving stick for 2 years now, I was blown away. He makes the car pull in every gear without going pass 3k rmps. I've been practicing afterwards but I can't seem to figure it out. He said it's all in the balancing. Do you guys have any clue on how to balance better? Any tips on seating position, how I should be stepping on the clutch, how should my legs be positioned(extended or bent slightly..etc.)?
Originally posted by Shukuchi_SH He makes the car pull in every gear without going pass 3k rmps.
I have to agree with Kool-Lude, I dont think its possible to make your car "pull" below 3000 RPM's. Now let me take you for a drive and show you how much the car will pull at 8000 RPM's and I think you'll be very surprised.
EDIT: and as far as seat position, I'm 6'2" and I sit very close to the wheel. I dont pivot my clutch foot on my heel, I raise and lower my entire foot/leg cause its less strenious. and for my "gas" foot I mash the accelerator as hard as I can
Last edited by BlueShadow; 02-05-2002 at 10:03 PM.
Originally posted by BlueShadow Now let me take you for a drive and show you how much the car will pull at 8000 RPM's and I think you'll be very surprised.
Well, when I shift I don't feel any pulling at all. I feel that lag, that 1/2 a second or 1 full second of time lost everytime I shift. It seems like he only loses like 1/8 of a second when he shifts..so fast...so smooth yet so much force(pulling force) from the engine.
Yes I have a similar thread on www. h - a .com but that was about how to shift smoothly, which I'm okay with now. I only learned to shift smoothly but I can't do what he does. He makes the car pull(not that hard but you could feel it) under 3000 rpms. When I try to shift like that, my passengers feel their ass bouncing.
When I raced him, I revved to 8,000 being pretty equal side by side but once I shift to second, I see his rear like 2 cars away!
Question:
How fast can you guys shift? When I shift, I noticed how slow I am. I feel the car respond a half second after I have shift. When my friend does it, once he pushes it in place it simultaneously pulls. What am I doing wrong?
When he drives, our back stay on the seat. I can actually feel the engine pulling the car. You can feel the force. I watched the rpms never passing 3,000. Could he be a damn good driver? He raced a "supped up" Subaru WRX and managed to have 1/4 ahead of him. His lude is bone stock.
Sounds impressive doesn't it? Well, I don't know how much more damn good drivers are out there but this is the first time I have started to noticed how DANGEROUS a MANUAL can be. I drove automatics in the past. I had no clue how much skills can be involved in driving manual transmission.
What do you guys think I'm doing wrong?
Thanks, I appreciate your suggestions.
Originally posted by Shukuchi_SH Well, when I shift I don't feel any pulling at all. I feel that lag, that 1/2 a second or 1 full second of time lost everytime I shift. It seems like he only loses like 1/8 of a second when he shifts..so fast...so smooth yet so much force(pulling force) from the engine.
Maybe your not "rev-matching" when you shift? when you shift into next gear, do you blip the gas a little before releasing the clutch?
Quote:
Originally posted by Shukuchi_SH He makes the car pull(not that hard but you could feel it) under 3000 rpms. When I try to shift like that, my passengers feel their ass bouncing.
I just thought I'd ask does your "friend" drive a Lude? If so, what are his cars mods?
maybe you forgot to mention that his car is a Z28 or has a Super. But If he is shifting at 3000 RPM in a 4G/5G Lude with basic bolt-ons, he would be going reaaaall slow.
Quote:
Originally posted by Shukuchi_SH When I raced him, I revved to 8,000 being pretty equal side by side but once I shift to second, I see his rear like 2 cars away!
again I have to ask, are you talking about the LAUNCH? or what RPM you shift at when your racing? If you're talking about what RPM to Launch your Lude from a stand still your statement would start to make a little sense.
launch at 3000-4000 RPM (NOT 8000)
shift at 7400 from 1st --> 2nd
all other shifts take it to 8000 RPM.
maybe you need to clear things up a bit, unless your friends Lude has power-adders THERE IS NO WAY you can be THAT fast. jus ask your friend what RPM he shifts at.
Maybe your not "rev-matching" when you shift? when you shift into next gear, do you blip the gas a little before releasing the clutch?
***okay..lets say I'm on 1st ready to shift to 2nd. I step on the clutch shift to 2nd while stepping on the clutch then I gas and release the clutch slowly. Man..someone needs to train me personally.
I just thought I'd ask does your "friend" drive a Lude? If so, what are his cars mods?
**5th gen lude...2001 SH -no mods- stock. I'm sure.
maybe you forgot to mention that his car is a Z28 or has a Super. But If he is shifting at 3000 RPM in a 4G/5G Lude with basic bolt-ons, he would be going reaaaall slow.
**I'm not saying that he is making the car fly! just normal driving but every shift makes the car pull, from 1st - reaching 3000, he'll shift to 2nd (PULLS), then reaching 3000 again and he'll shift to 3rd (feel another pull) etc... I'm comparing his driving to mine. Everytime I shift, you don't feel anything. The feeling is of an automatic. I shift approximately every 2,950 and so does he. Big difference in comparison. Both cars are stock.
again I have to ask, are you talking about the LAUNCH? or what RPM you shift at when your racing? If you're talking about what RPM to Launch your Lude from a stand still your statement would start to make a little sense.
**I'm not talking about racing. Just shifting every 3000 rpms. I was just mentioning how good he is when launching. I'm just trying to figure out how you make the damn lude go that fast shifting every 3000.
launch at 3000-4000 RPM (NOT 8000)
shift at 7400 from 1st --> 2nd
all other shifts take it to 8000 RPM.
**how do you launch? what do you mean launch at 3000-4000?
maybe you need to clear things up a bit, unless your friends Lude has power-adders THERE IS NO WAY you can be THAT fast. jus ask your friend what RPM he shifts at.
**he clearly suggested that I should shift every 3000 rpms to save gas. That I didn't need to go over 3000 to go fast. Then he showed me and I was surprised. Man, I really need to get in someone elses lude to see if you guys could do it. When's the next prelude gathering?
Originally posted by Kool-Lude
This is not possible...unless he was cruising, on a decline at that.
Well, maybe you guys are thinking "pull" as something like peeling off, going freak'in fast. Well, maybe you guys are used to driving the way my friend does and have gotten use to it. It's just a minor pull. Let me describe the feeling. I was sitting on passenger seat with another friend in the back. From 1st gear to 5th gear(shifts at 3000 every single gear), It felt like the front of the car was pulling the whole time without setting back. In other words, I don't know about you guys but when I drive, at every shift, my passenger's would feel their back hit the seat then I could see them lean back forward. But what I experience from him, my back was always stuck on the seat and never leaning forward. The last manual transmission car i've gone in was a 2000 Celica GT and it didn't feel that way. The celica guy has been driving stick for a long time too.
The Prelude is a front wheel drive car and natuarally when shifting through the gears I would hope that the front end pulled. The R stands for reverse not Real Fast. It's your timing, you just need practice...
Originally posted by Shukuchi_SH Well, when I shift I don't feel any pulling at all. I feel that lag, that 1/2 a second or 1 full second of time lost everytime I shift. It seems like he only loses like 1/8 of a second when he shifts..so fast...so smooth yet so much force(pulling force) from the engine.
Yes I have a similar thread on www. h - a .com but that was about how to shift smoothly, which I'm okay with now. I only learned to shift smoothly but I can't do what he does. He makes the car pull(not that hard but you could feel it) under 3000 rpms. When I try to shift like that, my passengers feel their ass bouncing.
When I raced him, I revved to 8,000 being pretty equal side by side but once I shift to second, I see his rear like 2 cars away!
Question:
How fast can you guys shift? When I shift, I noticed how slow I am. I feel the car respond a half second after I have shift. When my friend does it, once he pushes it in place it simultaneously pulls. What am I doing wrong?
When he drives, our back stay on the seat. I can actually feel the engine pulling the car. You can feel the force. I watched the rpms never passing 3,000. Could he be a damn good driver? He raced a "supped up" Subaru WRX and managed to have 1/4 ahead of him. His lude is bone stock.
Sounds impressive doesn't it? Well, I don't know how much more damn good drivers are out there but this is the first time I have started to noticed how DANGEROUS a MANUAL can be. I drove automatics in the past. I had no clue how much skills can be involved in driving manual transmission.
What do you guys think I'm doing wrong?
Thanks, I appreciate your suggestions.
It is possible to drive the H22A at or below 3000rpm. However, the slope of the road will determine how quickly acceration is is. Looking at a dyno sheet, the H22A's torque curve is, well not really a curve, but quite flat. From around 2400rpm to 5200, approx 116ft-lbs of force is turning the front wheels. Now below 2100rpm, very little torque is produced (dyno sheet doesn't show anything) and from 2100 to 2200rpm torque rapidly increases from 65ft-lbs to 116ft-lbs. It is not kind to various parts of the engine (oil seals, bearing, etc) to lug it (drive at or below peak power levels while under load). Your friend is right that it will conserve gas (must get 35mpg) but lugging creates a lot of stress and wear on the engine.
Shift as fast as you want; however to minimize wear on the clutch, it's important to match revs when changing gears (drop rpms shifting into a higher gear (1-2-3-4-5) and adding rpms when going into a lower gear. The amount of rpms dropped or added during an upshift or downshift depends on the length of time pulling the shift and the incline of the road. After knowing your car, looking at the tach and listening to the sound of the engine you should become quite good at matching revs. Your friend could be good at slipping the clutch into the various gears which it why your back is always in the seat back. Most people who don't know how to drive a stick just dump it into another gear w/o matching revs meaning the clutch and drive train absorb the shock (and hence the jerkiness).
You have completely lost me on your last comment on how dangerous a manual can be. Why do you think that? A driver has much more control driving a car with a manual than an automatic. Please explain why you think manuals are dangerous.
Last edited by YVR_98Prelude; 02-06-2002 at 05:25 PM.
Originally posted by Shukuchi_SH
When I raced him, I revved to 8,000 being pretty equal side by side but once I shift to second, I see his rear like 2 cars away!
Ok so you say you're shifting @ 8000 RPM's when you "race" him, If he shifts at 3000 RPM's and you at 8000 RPMs he should lose. unless of course it takes you 30 seconds between shifts or someting like that. Maybe you're leaving out what RPM your friend shifts at WHEN HE RACES?
Quote:
Originally posted by Shukuchi_SH Question:
How fast can you guys shift?
when I'm RACING:
I shift fast enough to get into the next gear without grinding or missing a gear.
when I'm CRUISING:
Whats the point of shifting fast when I'm just cruising around?
Quote:
Originally posted by Shukuchi_SH When I shift, I noticed how slow I am. I feel the car respond a half second after I have shift. When my friend does it, once he pushes it in place it simultaneously pulls. What am I doing wrong?
what do you mean respond half a second later? of course the cars not gonna respond until you apply the accelerator.
like I said maybe your friend is rev-matching when he shifts. If you give it gas at the same time you're releasing the clutch you'll pull almost instantly. but If you wait till your foot is all the way off the clutch before giving it gas then you'll get a slower response.
maybe you're waiting just a little while longer to release the clutch when you put it in gear.
EDIT: also Skukuchi_SH,
are you giving it a little gas when you let of the clutch? how fast do you take your foot of the clutch? gradually, or right away?
Oh yes and about the comment on how dangerous a manual is. The car is only as dangerous as the person operating it
Last edited by BlueShadow; 02-06-2002 at 08:12 PM.
Let me describe the feeling. I was sitting on passenger seat with another friend in the back. From 1st gear to 5th gear(shifts at 3000 every single gear), It felt like the front of the car was pulling the whole time without setting back. In other words, I don't know about you guys but when I drive, at every shift, my passenger's would feel their back hit the seat then I could see them lean back forward. But what I experience from him, my back was always stuck on the seat and never leaning forward.
To attain the feeling of straight pulling from 1st to 5th without any jerkiness as you described you just simply have to "power shift" but just at lower rpm. Tap on the pedal just enough to disengage the clutch and release it very fast. I repeat, very fast. And in the meantime you have to complete the shifting which means you have to shift umm again, very fast. And in the meantime your right foot has to control the throttle to let go of the gas pedal a tiny bit when the clutch is pressed and to give enough gas soon after the shifting is completed (clutch engaged). These three actions have to happen almost the same time and complete like within a split second. This way the shifting of gears will be seamless and you can feel the pulling all the way without any jerkiness. If you have ridden a motorcycle you'll know that this is very easy to do... almost like a reflection without even having to think about how to do it. It's a little hard with cars since the clutch is controlled by your foot instead of your fingers. Just practice and you'll be a master.
Originally posted by YVR_98Prelude
You have completely lost me on your last comment on how dangerous a manual can be. Why do you think that? A driver has much more control driving a car with a manual than an automatic. Please explain why you think manuals are dangerous.
OH I meant manual is dangerous to other people who drives automatics. Meaning that MANUAL RULES!
Thanks for that beautiful explaination. I kind of get what you are trying to explain. I will try to rev match. Thanks!
Ok so you say you're shifting @ 8000 RPM's when you "race" him, If he shifts at 3000 RPM's and you at 8000 RPMs he should lose. unless of course it takes you 30 seconds between shifts or someting like that. Maybe you're leaving out what RPM your friend shifts at WHEN HE RACES?
***NO NO NO! There's no way he could win if I shift 8000 and he shifts 3000. Those are two entirely different points. Sorry for confusing you.
when I'm RACING:
I shift fast enough to get into the next gear without grinding or missing a gear.
**whenever I shift 1st to 2nd, getting in gear doesn't feel as smooth as when I drive casually. Why is that?
when I'm CRUISING:
Whats the point of shifting fast when I'm just cruising around?
**good point.
what do you mean respond half a second later? of course the cars not gonna respond until you apply the accelerator.
**can't explain it.
like I said maybe your friend is rev-matching when he shifts. If you give it gas at the same time you're releasing the clutch you'll pull almost instantly. but If you wait till your foot is all the way off the clutch before giving it gas then you'll get a slower response.
**Yeah you are right. I think I'm not rev-matching.
maybe you're waiting just a little while longer to release the clutch when you put it in gear.
**exactly. i think you just solved my problem
EDIT: also Skukuchi_SH,
are you giving it a little gas when you let of the clutch? how fast do you take your foot of the clutch? gradually, or right away?
**i take it off gradually but sometimes fast. when releasing gradually, sometimes the car jolts due to bad rev-matching but when releasing the clutch right away, I don't feel a jolt but a thump sound from the transmission which sounds nasty.
Oh yes and about the comment on how dangerous a manual is. The car is only as dangerous as the person operating it
**dangerous as in a weapon to kill bad shifters like me and autos
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