devtec

Hey all,

As some of you may know, I got a JDM S Spec engine with LSD tranny swapped into my 97 SH at the end of September. I needed a new engine because I probably had fried rings from running low on oil due to a butcher job by a local Chicago mechanic. Because of this past horrible experience, I decided to make no compromises and have the swap done by the best in my area, King Motorsports.

These guys are top notch--official distributor of Mugen products in the US, pro racing team for Mugen RSX and Civic, overall stellar reputation. Yes, a great deal more expensive, but as I said, this time around no compromises. Scott, one of the owners, was super professional, and I felt the car was in great hands.

They kept it for 2 weeks--I asked them to keep it for as long as they want, drive it around, test it, make sure there are no problems. Pick up was great--tire dressing on tires, a spotless engine bay, a great walk through by the mechanic, beautiful job on a custom Mugen exhaust with a 2.5" high flow cat. I was extremely happy and relieved that my nightmare was over. Spent $7500 overall on engine, parts (clutch, header, all engine seals, pump, cap, clutch master and slave cylinder, etc.), and labor. Yes I had a heart attack over the entire cost, and depleted our savings, but was the best overall solution since it was cheaper than a new car, and allowed me to keep the car I love.

On the way home, it felt better and smoother than before the swap. Power not as much as I thought it would be, but I did not want to complain. And I actually got 26mpg! Much better than the 16 I was getting before the swap.

Fast forward 1 week. Seems the car has been dragging a bit. Now I'm a bit more confident that the power really isn't what it should be. There are a few issues: I have a CEL, which shows primary o2 sensor bad, and the car is using the Type SH ECU since the JDM ECU Steve sent from hmotors was bad (new one was on the way). So those might be the explanation.

So exactly 1 week after pick up I'm going through the engine bay doing a routine check. Everything looks good. Spark plug wires all hooked up, etc. Everything in place. Then, I check the oil: THE OIL LEVEL IS LOW BY A FULL 2 QUARTS. What the f*ck??? I do a double take. Check it again: there is just a dab of oil, maybe 1mm at the end of the stick. How can this be??? Did I really just drive 430 miles on a new engine with too little oil in it??????? Is there some massive oil leak that I didn't notice? COULD THIS BE HAPPENING TO ME AGAIN???

I was absolutely livid and scared out of my mind. Did i just burn $7500? Is the engine damaged? I added 2 quarts of oil and took the car out. Holy sh!t it was awesome. All the power I thought should have been there showed up. Performed great.

Which means my engine was suffering the whole time since pickup from King. OMG. So I email Scott at King still pissed out of my mind. He basically says he doesn't know what to say other than that 5 quarts went in at the shop and if I want he can take a look at the car. Yes, I would like him to take a look at the car.

So I will be bringing it back to King this coming week. Since then, I have noted there is a small amount of fresh oil on my garage floor. So there is a leak. BUT, since filling it up, in 2 weeks the oil level HAS NOT BUDGED. It has stayed full, confirming that it is the shop who sent me out low on oil. In addition, the car has become weaker again, and I'm getting a whopping 16mpg driving extremely conservatively (all shifts <3500rpm). Also, I am now having major hesitation problems--from 1000k to 3000k the car will sputter and jolt violently as the engine almost (but never stalls).

Needless to say I am angry and in a state of disbelief that the shop could have done this, and that my beautiful engine may have been destroyed. I asked Scott if he thought there was any damage from running the engine low by 2 quarts for 430 miles: he said, "Absolutely not. We run race cars with a flashing oil light and finish a few laps before adding the oil back all the time."

So, what do you think is reasonable for me to do? Do you agree with Scott that there could have been no engine damage done? I cannot believe that his statement is true, since it was clear to me that the car had been struggling its whole first week home without the oil. How could there not have been damage?

At the least I would want to get a compression and leak down test (perfect numbers from hmotors, btw, with 235 across the board). I assume these will show some signs if there was damage. But regardless, should I demand that they rebuild the Type S engine? Should they order a new one and put it in?

When all is said and done, I do still believe that Scott at King is a good guy and that they do professional work (except for sending me out on an empty engine). I would like to remain amicable and work with them. But if it is clear that I need something drastic, like a new engine, then I'm prepared to go the BBB/threaten a lawsuit route.

I'm opening it up to all your advice on how I should proceed from here. Sorry about the long post.

Thanks all,
Dev


CLIFF'S:
- got beautiful new Type S engine installed at King Motorsports
- car not performing that well
- checked engine 1 week and 430 miles later and found 2 quarts low on oil!!!
- engine could be screwed: no power, 16mpg, and now stuttering between 1-3k rpm
- i'm pissed, think it's really damaged? what should i do?

PininFarina456

Wow, thats really sad. I am sorry to hear.

I really don't for his statement regarding the low oil, although its very well possible that no damage was done to your motor during the 430 miles. Were you heavy in VTEC during this period?

I would say have a compression test done independently rather than at King, and go from there.

__________________

1998 Honda Prelude Type SH - SOLD
2002 Honda S2000

ludehawk

or.. maybe you weren't hitting vtack? explains the loss of power.

__________________
Jay

devtec

Pinifarina, I was never in vtec that much, maybe 3 times total since I picked up the car, so I hope in that respect the damage was minimized...

Anyone here (marcucci, etc.) who coud definitively tell me if the engine would have been damaged by this scenario, and how hard I should push the shop (accept what happened to me/demand they rebuild or repair it/demand they get a new engine for me)?

marcucci

The big problem is, you will probably never know... one of the ugly truths about junkyard motors (which is all hmotors motors are, JDM junkyard motors) is you have no idea how it was taken care of before or how it was stored when it was removed from service. A lot of things can happen before it gets into your hands.

The oil leak should be looked at. You may not notice a drop in the level but it may be related to your low oil when you looked at it (you never know). Could you have done damage? Maybe. The engine doesn't need 5 quarts to be fine, you can run a quart low and unless you are doing some serious cornering it will be just fine. 2 quarts low? I think that's getting iffy but if you didn't really rod on it in VTEC a lot or stuff it into turns it is probably OK.

You need to do a comp. test, but:
- you can't necessarily trust hmotors numbers
- see if King did one
- see what it is now

My guess is that the numbers will be fine. Another ugly fact about a junkyard motor, really all H22's in general, is that the oil control rings may be the issue. In that case you can have great compression rings and blow good compression and leakdown but have **** oil control rings and horrible oil consumption. Case in point: my '97 with a junkyard motor w/120k miles on it burns a quart around every 500-1000 miles (depending on how hard I drive it) while it still blows about 210psi across the board and makes great power. it just rips through oil like a frigging two-stroke.

You definitely need to pull the codes and find out what the CEL is for. The low fuel economy is likely due to a bad O2 sensor. Depending on what King did with the motor, what was in it, and how much oil it burns, it may have fouled the sensor. It may also be something unrelated. It could also be a bad injector- you never know. Also check the cat for damage if it has one. Basically, you need to diagnose that CEL and figure it out; it may be related or may not be to the oil consumption.

You can always try some regane, or a gallon of E85 on your next fillup. I would avoid Seafoam or an engine "cleaner" that goes in with the oil, but something like Regane or E85 might help to clean up the rings a bit if it's carbon that's causing the problem.