I think I now own a '97 base prelude with an SH engine and tranny - Honda Prelude Forum

my97lude · 12-10-2011, 01:48 AM

Info: I found an ad for a prelude SH at a great price and went to look at it... seeing the lack of spoiler, lack of 5star rims, and the "4" in the VIN I knew it was actually a BASE model and not SH.
I went ahead and bought it, cuz I have always loved this body style, the interior is nice, and for the price, I knew I could sell the rims and body parts alone and get my dinero back.

So... I'm fixing it up... trying to reverse the damage from the typical "kid" who wants it to sound like someone blowing extremely hard into a duck call, and was planning to put all OEM parts back on.

-My first clue that "back to original" may not be happening was the intermediate pipe that for "some reason" doesn't reach the headers and Cat from the muffler. "Like it has an SH exhaust on it or somethin" was my first thought.
-The tranny has the M2U4 label on it as well... raising a red flag...

So now... I have a few questions:

1-The engine has the following stampings: H22a4 1500930 next to the tranny and P13 HF1 on the other side of the block (timing case side)...Is this an SH motor? (I'm assuming YES since the SH tranny is on it...???)

2-If there IS an ATTS system and it is hooked up, I assume that the front and rear suspension should be swapped from the Base to the SH version for the ATTS to work properly or can I leave the base suspension setup the way it is?

3-I also assume that all the electrical wiring and ECU stuff should have been swapped at the same time of the transplant... Other than the fuel mixture being wrong (one of the O2 sensors has been removed and the wire cut), it runs pretty well and sounds good.

Just need to know all this before I start mingling Base parts with SH parts and start getting into trouble.
Considering that I really WANTED the SH version, and actually thought about doing the swap for fun ANYHOW, I'm not really all that upset about it, but just want to be sure that I do the rest of the car as professionally correct as possible.

Please keep the answers professional and only reply if you know what you are talking about. Don't need or want stupid replies or uneducated opinions...

Please just replies and input from folks that know what they are doing and talking about to help me figure out what I have and what path to take with it to have some fun with it. Is not a daily driver yet, but will be when I am done. If it actually DOES have the ATTS, my thinking is that I should treat the rest of the car as an SH and put on all the suspension pieces that an SH calls for. (different sway bar and linkages, different struts and springs, different control arms, etc.)
Just finished replacing lower ball joints, sway bar linkages, and brake rotors and brake pads all the way around.

Thank you in advance for any help!

minilogoguy18 · 12-10-2011, 12:08 PM

Why don't you just look under the car for the ATTS unit? Or better yet you should be able to see the oil filter from the top on the timing side as on a SH it's on the upper left of the block.

Kronn 98SH · 12-11-2011, 01:02 AM

Yes, that's an SH block and and SH transmission. The block is from 1997, so you didn't get an newer engine. Good luck with this.

my97lude · 12-12-2011, 02:34 PM

Thank you kronn. Your info should help me alot.
This is the first Honda that I have owned where the factory "souped up" version of their car wasn't a completely different/more powerful motor from the base version(accords 2.0 vs. 2.2 and preludes 2.0 vs. 2.1 etc.). While it IS apparently a different block, I didn't realize that until getting on this forum... just assumed that a "2.2 is a 2.2"

Minilogoguy: indeed, the oil filter is at the top (stupid place for it...and I hear there is a kit to relocate it, which I will likely be investing in soon.) I was not aware that both blocks were not built with the filter in the same spot.

For the ECUs... can you all give me any advice as to what I SHOULD see on the plate under the passenger side floorboard? What numbers should I be seeing on the cases? Currently, there are the two cases... one is blue, closest to the center console) and has nothing connected to it.

For the suspension... should I be swapping the SH parts over to it?

my97lude · 12-13-2011, 01:12 PM

I went ahead and pulled the ECU out of the car that had nothing plugged into it. Apparently, it is called an "Electronic Moment Control Unit." What the heck does this thing do?

Nighthawk01 · 12-13-2011, 02:00 PM

Sounds like the previous owner had attempted a swap or piggyback. Any more information on the unit?

As for the mystery of the motor - it's a tricky situation.

It's possible that a previous owner swapped all of the components of an SH onto his/her Base, have you checked with your local Honda dealership about your VIN on the dash?

Does the vin on the dash correspond to the vin on the back bottom section of the block? (left of the oil filter)

If the car is indeed a Base - it is possible that an SH motor was swapped in, and had the ATTS unit removed/blocked off. Which would also require a different engine harness. If they did just a motor swap and block off - the base suspension would still be used.

^^ Just some things to look for if you've not done so already.

Best of luck, keep us updated with your findings

Kronn 98SH · 12-13-2011, 02:06 PM

I guess Nighthawk didn't read any of the subsequent posts in this thread, specifically mine.

my97lude · 12-13-2011, 03:00 PM

Kronn said in a previous post that the numbers that I gave previously off the engine block and the transmission identify both as the SH model. The numbers on my VIN and everything else about the car identify the car itself as a base model. (rims, suspension, brake light in rear window, etc....)
My concern now is whether or not the ECU equipment from the SH donor was ALSO swapped over and whether or not the ATTS works or will work with the proper suspension components.
From what I have read on other prelude sites, the swap from base to SH won't work and the car will not run correctly if the ECUs are not swapped as well. I found that the "Electronic Moment Control" box is not hooked up at all... but I do not know exactly what it does anyhow... the best I can figure from reading some other posts is that it has something to do with how the 5spd tranny reacts??? The code number on the EMC is 48310-P5P-023 . Below that number is 7404-100850 . And then a big "J3" beside that.
I am assuming that this is a component of the Base model and not the SH, but I am not sure... not even sure of it's function since the car is running without it...

Nighthawk01 · 12-13-2011, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kronn 98SH

I guess Nighthawk didn't read any of the subsequent posts in this thread, specifically mine.

Keep your personal issues and the attitude that goes with, off the forums. You're intelligent when it comes to Preludes, we all know that, but your people skills are that of a pissed off teenager.

I did see that he has an SH motor. I was simply making suggestions of things to check to see if when the motor was swapped in and had the atts unit installed and operable or not and to confirm the vin.

Now both of our posts do nothing but clutter this thread and are of no help to the OP.

my97lude - sorry for the OT, the testosterone and "pride" of some members get in the way of being helpful. Hopefully a mod will clean this up for you.

Kronn 98SH · 12-13-2011, 05:22 PM

Nighthawk, your suggestions of checking the VIN and the motor were both pointless, since they were already done by him and me. (The VIN was confirmed in the first line of the thread. The engine was confirmed in the 2nd response of the thread.) Attitude happens when ignorance gets displayed. Keep THAT to yourself and you won't have to worry about that pesky testosterone, which you seem to lack.

My97Lude, if you give the model # of the ECU, I can identify that for you as well. Hopefully, someone won't come in afterward and suggest you repeat the process of identifying it because they didn't read our posts.

You can do the same for the suspension pieces, assuming you can find a part #, which probably won't happen. However, you can measure components, like the springs, for comparison. I'm assuming you have an SH engine, transmission, and ATTS unit while still having the base suspension & ECU and none of the ATTS sensors. That would be the easiest way to replace a blown base motor with a wrongly-purchased SH engine. Again, this is merely an assumption.

my97lude · 12-13-2011, 07:32 PM

I will likely be out in the barn tonight working on getting at the other ECU... Not sure if I can unplug it without causing any problems or having to reprogram. I will go ahead and take some pictures of the ECU, topside and underside of the car and try to post them, which may help you all to identify whether or not the ATTS is installed and/or functional. If it is not installed, I will likely just leave everything suspension-wise "base" stock for now.... if it IS on there, I would eventually like to get it all functional. That may be a pipe dream though, cuz if I read correctly the steering column and components would also have to be replaced with the SH version??

I measured the exhaust this morning to be sure I was ordering the correct intermediate pipe. Measured at 67 inches... the SH length. The base version pipe is 75 inches long. Apparently, the previous owner tried to shorten the base pipe and cut it too short. Then he tried to add an adapter, but that didn't reach either. Yeesh... what a mess.
Not complaining though... having some fun learning about the car and fixing it up.

So what exactly DOES the Electronic Moment Control Unit do?

I imagine that it should actually be hooked up to something. lol

Kronn 98SH · 12-13-2011, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my97lude

So what exactly DOES the Electronic Moment Control Unit do?

I imagine that it should actually be hooked up to something. lol

Best I can tell from the pictures/descriptions on the net, that's the ATTS Control Unit, and they seem to sell for about $150 used. Just like everything else, give me the part # and I can verify.

my97lude · 12-14-2011, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my97lude

...The code number on the EMC is 48310-P5P-023 . Below that number is 7404-100850 . And then a big "J3" beside that.
I am assuming that this is a component of the Base model and not the SH, but I am not sure... not even sure of it's function since the car is running without it...

Numbers off that box are above^
It was in the position of the ATTS box in your diagram (which btw shows an automatic transmission

)

Kronn 98SH · 12-14-2011, 06:30 AM

Sorry, I must have missed that due to preparing my response for Nighthawk.

Anyway, that IS the ATTS control unit. It's the same size/shape and in the exact same location as the TCM for the sissy-stick versions, which is why the photo covers both SH and auto (the picture comes straight from the Helm's manual). Obviously, if it were unhooked, your ATTS did/does not function.

I doubt your ATTS ever worked because you probably don't have ANY of the sensors required. That's most likely why your ATTS control unit was left unplugged. Next question, do you have an ATTS light in your dash? It should illuminate as soon as you turn the key to the ON position. I'm guessing you have a base model gauge cluster. No big deal since the only difference is that bulb.

Mine wasn't nearly as botched as yours by the previous owner, but imagine this. Aftermarket indiglo gauges installed using PHONE CORD tapped into the side marker (for power) with the cord running out of the hood, across the fender, and into the cabin through the driver side door. Another good job: both door speakers were installed by cutting away the stock basket and replacing it with gobs and gobs of plastic cling wrap (Saran wrap).

my97lude · 12-14-2011, 07:43 AM

You gotta love hack jobs... I'm waiting to find something similar to your phone cord thing. LOL

Apparently, a few of the bolts must have been lost during the swap... two of the engine mounts are missing one bolt each (sarcastically: "ya don't need all 3 bolts on each mount anyhow... do ya??") I'm thinking that it may be a good idea to take the whole drivetrain out this spring, redo all the gaskets and make sure everything is put back together properly.

Kronn 98SH · 12-14-2011, 10:11 AM

Well, if you decide not to have functional ATTS, I might be interested in your Control Unit. Mine is giving me a communication error code.

zfinatic · 12-14-2011, 01:11 PM

I've got an unmolested 01 sh if you need good comparison photos...good luck figuring everything out.

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my97lude · 12-14-2011, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kronn 98SH

Well, if you decide not to have functional ATTS, I might be interested in your Control Unit. Mine is giving me a communication error code.

You were right, my dash does not have the ATTS light when I turn the key (does this mean I do not have it at all, or just that I need to connect a certain fuse to light it up?) I probably won't have the money to put in the ATTS system if I do not already have it. I just may sell that control unit to you if that is the case.

On the driver side transaxle case, I found this sticker:

I think I now own a '97 base prelude with an SH engine and tranny-web-atts-pic.jpg

P6K:1002173 is on the sticker.
I'm not sure where to find all the sensors.

So I can still have the SH motor and tranny, but NOT have the ATTS equipment installed? Is it running off the "base" transaxles then? I'll need to know if I ever need to replace CV shafts I imagine.

my97lude · 12-14-2011, 11:38 PM

I ordered a new O2 sensor today and should be in tomorrow, and the rest of the replacement exhaust should be in on Friday or Monday. The upstream O2 sensor is there, but the downstream O2 sensor was cut off... probably at the same time the rest of the exhaust was butchered. Will have to see if that helps with my stalling problem after running for a little bit. Definitely doesn't HELP, the fact that the O2 sensor ISN'T there.

(If not, I may be looking at ignition as other discussions have mentioned but I want to get the obvious wrongs fixed first before moving on to that.)

zfinatic: Thank you for the offer. I would love to see some pictures of what this ATTS unit is supposed to look like on the car and where exactly it is visually. As soon as I get the OEM exhaust put on I can register it and go inspect it. Already did the ball joints, sway bar linkages and rotors and pads all the way around, also replaced the tires and fixed a few wiring issues with the tail lights.
Once it is registered and inspected, I'll be working on the ATTS system to see if I can make it work.
At the moment, I'm just grateful to finally have a prelude model that I have been drooling over since 1997!

Kronn 98SH · 12-14-2011, 11:39 PM

In a base cluster, the bulb is missing. IIRC, the translucent "ATTS" plate is a blank as well. This has no bearing on the effectiveness of the system. Just like disabling your seatbelt dummy light won't prevent your seatbelts from working.

I have no idea what that piece is, but I can probably tell you in a couple of days when I'm not swamped with finals.

The ATTS system works as an open differential when not functioning. So you can have an SH engine, SH transmission, ATTS unit, and SH transaxles on a base model with 0 problems. It's just an extra 60lbs or so of dead weight.

The sensors are located throughout the suspension. The Helm's manual can help you track them down.