I tried a search....didnt find anything useful......
Someone mentioned to me Hondata IM Gasket......What exactlly doe that do for the lude besides keeps heat from the IM...if thats what it does....and gains, benefits or anything else out of this...anyone know what it looks like.......
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*2006 Pontiac GTO*
*2001 Pearl Lude*
*1989 Honda Civic*
I installed an Hondata IM gasket on my 5g after the swap. It made a serious difference when the car was moving from an intake temperature perspective.
Frankly, with one of these installed you do not need a cold intake of any sort. The advantage is that you don't have to install a cold air system that tends to make the car idle and rev louder. Soooo... you are not attracting the police as much.
Also, if you are in CA or someother state where the intakes have to be CARB approved, you will never have a problem as they can't tell it's installed.
Nope... I don't believe you're correct.... or at least, I believe the addition of a CAI with the hondata gasket would be minor (VERY MINOR) at best.
At the time I did the testing I owned a Genisys diagnostic computer that recorded all of the information with respect to intake temperature (and a bunch of other stuff).
On hot days, the intake temperature of the H22A would raise when the car was sitting (both parked after driving and traffic). This was primarily due to convection, as the Hondata gasket's primary purpose was to insulate the IM with the cylinder head.
When the car was moving, colder air from the outside of engine compartment would be sucked into the stock intake, and begin cooling the intake manifold.
Data from the diagnostic computer showed that the intake temperature would lower to about 100 degrees F and stay there. (That was VERY consistant will all external temperature ranges unless you got to approximately 35F [or lower] or 100F [or higher].)
The OEM airbox and intake doesn't starve a stock or realatively stock H22A series engine by any means, and the difference between the OEM unit with a Hondata gasket and a CAI system without one was that the OEM/Hondata gasket was a better performer.
I tested against an H22A4 with a AEM CAI.
The AEM was not as loud as some of the other systems I've been around, but it still draws attention, requires pretty much as much work to install, and is MUCH more expensive.
The clumulative effects of the CAI and the Hondata gasket are going to be minor. Because the CAI's are mostly metal, and going to have similar thermal transfer when the car is parked or standing in traffic. Once the IM is hot, it's hot. Then it's simply a matter of the air getting to the IM and cooling it... and the engine isn't using any more air that it can safely mix with gas before detonation occurs... so you're not seeing any more real throughput that will result in better cooling than with the Hondata gasket alone.
If anyone is concerned about the "POS" oem intake... the air box on the JDM H22A is exactly the same, it's the top filter assembly and the pipe going to the intake that's different.
I'll tell you right now that when I swapped the H22A4 out and put the JDM H22A in, I wasn't having any problems with loss of power due to the OEM air intake system.
Without a doubt, the Hondata gasket is a superior investment to a CAI, and the addition of a CAI is not worth it.
Frankly, with one of these installed you do not need a cold intake of any sort.
The big question is, are you talking about a stock/very lightly moddified engine or a moddified engine with increased demands for air.
There are 2 ways an intake could make more power than a stock intake: deliver COLDER air to the engine, deliver MORE air to the engine.
I agree that the stock intake DOES deliver a fairly cool charge already, so a CAI isn't really making it's power from delivering colder air. It makes its power from delivering MORE air to the engine. This is why one CAI can outperform another, since the shape of the bends and the diameter of the piping in key locations determines the amount of air delivered to the engine. This is also why slapping on an AEM CAI is not going to do much of anything for your stock engine, since it doesn't need any more air than the stock intake already delivers. If a CAI really did deliver much colder air than stock, you would actually see a good performance increase on a nearly stock engine, but you don't.
I will agree with you that on a stock engine, switching out the stock intake for a CAI (regardless if the Hondata IM gasket is installed or not) would do very little for you. However, once you've modified the engine to desire more air, the stock intake will absolutely become a bottleneck.
My point was that ON A MODIFIED engine (where the engine desires more air), a cold air intake would have cumulative effects with a hondata gasket. Not because of air temp, but quantity of air. And since the majority of ppl on PO.com have at least a header and exhaust, I believe they would benefit from a CAI in addition to a Hondata IM gasket.
So the question becomes, how many mods does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?
Modified or not... header...exhaust... or not... the car is still controlled by the ECU.
The knock sensor is going to register detonation and knock... and ECU will retard or advance the timing to prevent damage (along with the TPS / CPS / CAS signals)...
Just because you have more air available doesn't mean the ECU is going to use it.
So, now you're talking about different cam profiles, and an aftermarket ECU signal modification product... which completely remaps your fuel map. (AEM EMS, VTEC controller, etc..etc...)
That's would be MASSIVELY modified... not a small or simple set of modifications. You're only going to need to replace your stock instock due to performance issues if you are running aggressive cams, or boosting.
The HP difference between the stock, the Hondata gasket, and the AEM CAI's show the AEM and the Hondata gasket are basically the same. It's most likely that the majority of the HP to the wheels gains is due to the lowering of the intake temperature... otherwise the AEM solution would generate signifcantly better results.
So.... for 90% of the people out there... the Hondata gasket is a better technical solution unless you want a colorful CAI to show off to your friends.
Me... I always perferred to speed in my Prelude... "A day without VTEC is like a day without sunshine." A nice QUITE seemingly stock ride doesn't attract the police...and that's what a CAI and VTEC will get you.
AEM CAI: $368.75, plus you have to cut the fender area to install it.
Hondata Gasket: $60.00, bolts right on. (Though you should use anti-vibration loctite on the IM nuts though.)
The IM gasket may only cost $60, but WOW it's a lot of work. I can install a cai in under 30 minutes. And I am still not convinced that a CAI really increases HP over stock becuase of its cold air, since the stock unit is already a cold air intake made out of plastic, resisting heat better than an alluminum one would.
I have a DC short ram intake, DC header (crap), AEM pullies (don't affect air/fuel) an exhaust, and am about to get the VAFC tuned this month. I'll install the Hondata IM gasket first, then after tuning is done, compare the stock intake to a CAI to see dyno proven evidence. With those mods, I believe the intake will certainly see gains over the stock intake. Sound good? Hell, if I'm doing that, I might as well borrow intakes from other PO members and do a real deal comparison with like 4 or 5 of em. I'm starting to like this idea...
The AEM v2 Dyno on their site indicates a maximum of 7.9HP to the wheels at 7500RPM.
Now, since you really need to be close to the rev limit to see that actual change, I'm thinking that the 7.9HP increase is probably related to air volume, as opposed to air expansion due to heat... but you know... it's almost impossible to tell. Because at that volume of air use, you're cooling down the intake more effectively than at any other time. Especially if you are doing it on a dyno, rather then real world short burts close to the rev limit.
...and yes... the IM gasket install is a PITA. I did it during the swap... so the engine was out and it was realyl easy.
OK, I'll start a new thread attempting to recruit some donor intakes for the test. If I don't get anyone though, I may still compare the stock intake to my DC short ram (even though it isn't a cold air).
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I've been thinking about this mod as well...would be good comparision materials for sure..
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