nwong1683

so i've been lowered w/ h&r sports with NO camber kit for about 2 years now. the insides of my tires are wearing out fast so i got an alignment today.

front left and front right:
camber = -1.6
toe = .05 ( was -.17 on right side)

rear left:
camber = -1.6
toe = .11

rear right:
camber = -1.9
toe = .15

The mechanic did not set my toe to zero for a reason.....he said with these settings, it will give me more tire life ( my tires already have uneven wear). Do theese numbers sound about right????? thanks in advance!

jc836

I'm going to take a shot at this again. Looks like you are lowered a bit. The only way you can correct the Camber is with kits. I have written on this before.
However-if you have a BASE the parts are simple. The front can be SPC 67135 which correc t +/-1.5 degrees and have the added benefit of helping to make the Caster equal during the alignment. I might add that by installing these kits you will change the Caster to be more like the SH.
The rear kits will be the same situation. you have several choices back there since the rear of the car is different from the front. You can use Anchor Bolt kits from Ingalls (3571 and/or 3573 depending on correction needed) or SPC. The SPC rear kits are somewhat different in design from the Ingalls. There are balljoint kits-but they are not worth the difference back there.
Our 99 (FOR SALE-see Classifieds) has the 67135 kits on the front and Ingalls 3571 on the rear and it is completely within factory spec. Steering is much improved and tire wear is nill. The tech is correct when reporting that TOE is critical. With the 5th gen Prelude this is absolutely true.
Have Q's-drop me an e-mail and I'll try to help.

__________________
Grandpa's toys-modded suspensions and a few other tweaks
'99 Prelude SS - A sweet song in motion SOLD
'89 CRX Si= SCCA/NASA/PDA ITA #99
'03 Dodge Dakota Club Cab (4.7L)-gonna tow
Thanks to KONI, KIRK Racing, Longacre, UPRacing, Summit, Racing Electronics and my crew.

nwong1683

thanks for your help..i did a search on all this already though. i do not plan on getting any camber kits because i will go back to stock once these tires wear out completely. I do want to go as long as possible w/ these tires i have now. So my questino is will making the toe positive make up for some of the negative camber that i have? The mechanic specifically told me he set the toe to these numbers to save me more tire tread since i arleady had inner wear.

jc836

You will gain nothing by over correecting in the opposite direction. Actually, it is not a good handling choice either. Keep it as close to the stock settings as possible and live with the wear by rotating the tires.
Good luck and Happy Luding

__________________
Grandpa's toys-modded suspensions and a few other tweaks
'99 Prelude SS - A sweet song in motion SOLD
'89 CRX Si= SCCA/NASA/PDA ITA #99
'03 Dodge Dakota Club Cab (4.7L)-gonna tow
Thanks to KONI, KIRK Racing, Longacre, UPRacing, Summit, Racing Electronics and my crew.

SleepyFish

I think your mechanic is smoking something. Go find someone else and specify what you want. You need to zero out your toe in order to reduce the wear. The increased negative camber with your toe settings are definately going to reduce tire life. I've been running with large negative camber settings and do not have uneven tire wear because the toe is set almost to zero. Read this article from Tire Rack: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...eral/align.jsp

For your info here are my alignment settings on my SH: (measurements in degrees)

Front Left:
camber = -3.2
toe = 0.00
caster = 4.4

Front Right:
camber = -3.0
toe = 0.01
caster = 4.0

Rear Left:
camber = -2.4
toe = 0.05

Rear Right:
camber = -2.4
toe = 0.07

I use these settings for autocrossing, but I have a different set of street tires/rims that I use for daily driving which show very even tire wear. As you can see the front is just about zero and the rear has a small amount of toe in. This helps in straight line stabilty. You don't need to put in a camber kit as long as you zero out your toe. This will greatly increase tire life as well as regular tire rotation.

SleepyFish

Ok. I think I was smoking something . After looking at the numbers again your alignment doesn't look too bad, but it could be closer to zero.

nwong1683

thanks for the input sleepyfish. i called up big 0 tires and talked to the mechanic again. He still insists that what he did is the right thing and i will get more tire life. i guess those toe #'s kinda make sense according to the camber wear i have. my rear right tire has the worse camber wear, so he set the toe in the highest at .15. its beginning to make more sense....i hope he's right!

ent3ri_3

camber does nothing to the tire wear.. if ANY at all.. its all in the toe, and you WANT the toe set to as close to 0 as possible.. i have like -1.5 camber up on the top (both tires) and like 0 toe... and on the rear i have nearish -1.3 or so camber but the toes are +1.5 or so and it killed my rear tires in 6k miles.. the front tires still have 95+% tread on them

SleepyFish

What was the rear toe before alignment? If it was larger than the 0.15 then you'll get more tire life with your current settings but the closer the toe is to zero the less the tire will scrub sideways. If you think about it, toe just measures the angle the tires are pointed relative to the centerline of the vehicle when viewed from above. The larger the number, the more the tires are angled inward (positive toe). When you're driving on the highway in a straight line and you have some toe angle, the more the tire is scrubbing sideways instead of rolling striaight. Combine this with the negative camber (more contact on inside part of the tire) then the inside part of your tires will wear out a lot faster.

A quote from Tire Rack:
Consider that if the toe setting is just 1/16-inch off of its appropriate setting, each tire on that axle will scrub almost seven feet sideways every mile! Extend it out and you'll discover that rather than running parallel to each other, the front tires will scrub over 1/4-mile sideways during every 100 miles of driving!

You'll want a little bit of toe-in in the back to help keep the car stable in a straight line, but I still think 0.05 is better than 0.15.

nwong1683

my rear toe before was .17 also which is why the innner tread is almost bald. i understand that if my tires did not have uneven wear, the toe should definitely be put to zero. Should i worry about the front toe set to .05 when i have a -1.6 camber?

SleepyFish

It looks like your front toe of 0.05 is fine. You want it close to zero. If the tire does not show uneven wear, then the toe angle is fine. If the tire shows more wear on part of the tire then the toe angle is too large (either too much positive toe-in or too much negative toe-out). This is assuming negative camber.

It probably won't hurt with your current numbers since the rear wheels are just rolling along. You're toe was off in the front before the alignment but it's better now.

PretecSH

i think your thinking of caster.

I am taking a class a Francis Tuttle Technology Center for automotive service, and upon completion, will be ASE Certified. I finished the alignments section today on the Hunter DSP 400 alignment machine, and I aligned my lude. (totaling 7 cars in the last week and a half) -just so you can trust what I am saying. I learned it from books and hands on training

Some facts:

Camber is, in short, is the tilt on the top of the tire in relation to the vertical centerline of the tire.

-Camber is a MAJOR factor in tire wear.
-neg. camber will show signs of wear on the inner sholder because the top of the tire is tilting inward, towards the car. (everyone should know all of this)
-pos. camber will show signs of wear on the outer edges of the tire.



-The vehicle will pull to the side with the more positive camber.
-Neg. camber will increase stability and handling, but wear the tires quickly (think of racecars)


Caster – Think of the strut assembly, and wether it is pointing to the front or rear of the vehicle. The angle, from the side of the vehicle, is considered positive when the steering axis is pointing rearward (back of the car) and negative when the steering axis is inclined forward.



-Preludes come with very positive caster for handling puropses.
-Positive caster has a more harsh ride quality because road irregularities are more inline with the caster angle.


-Caster does not affect tire wear.


Toe measurement is the difference in the distance between the front of the tires and the back of the tires.


-Usually set close to zero which means that the wheels are parallel with each other.
-Toe-in means that the fronts of the tires are closer to each other than the rears.
-Toe-out is just the opposite.
-An incorrect toe-in will cause rapid tire wear to both tires equally. This type of tire wear is called a saw-tooth wear pattern.




Lets see, some random facts:

-The wider the tire, the more sensitive it is to camber changes.
-Lower =neg. camber will result. Raise=Pos. camber will result. (on MacPhearson strut assemblys-SLA is opposite)
-On stock preludes, only toe and be adjusted.

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