Help with accessory belts - Honda Prelude Forum

videogmike · 05-04-2010, 07:29 PM

Hey guys, we just did my gf's (klager01) timing belt, water pump, seals, manual tensioner conversion, and accessory belts on her 01 SH.

we've run into problems with the final part, the accessory belts. At first there was this strange tapping/rattling sounding like it came from the crank pulley. we thought it might have been something behind the timing cover from the timing belt. however, it seemed to actually be coming from the ac/alternator belt. we determined this because as we tightened up that belt the rattling stopped until we turned the ac on. then it would begin to rattle/tap again.
we decided it must be too loose, so we tightened it up a bit and the tapping/rattling sound went away. we were then left with a high pitched screeching that was not constant, therefore i would not describe it as a traditional loose squealing belt. the best way i can describe it in text is, "EEE EEE EEE EEE." and this was only when the ac was on.
we decided the belt must be too tight, so we loosened it a little. still screeched. loosened it some more and then we were left with rattling and screeching.

so we took off the ps belt. there was still rattling/screeching. next we removed the ac/alternator belt, and was left with a beautiful sounding motor.

we called it a day. This job has already been going on for 4 days. never done anything this major before, not to mention we had to wait till monday to call honda parts and wait for them to get parts today. her lower timing cover was very damaged and had been glued back together by the previous shop that did the work and the bottom half of it was missing as well.

anyone have thoughts? i tried searching, didn't quite find any threads with a same sounding problem.

dontbuyprelude · 05-05-2010, 04:01 AM

i know theres a procedure in the helms for determining belt tension. but what i did on mine is tighten till theres about 1/4"-1/2" of give in the belt at the longest span between 2 pulleys. give about 30-40 lbs of pull to the belt. works for me.

klager01 · 05-05-2010, 05:38 AM

Bump for my car

videogmike · 05-05-2010, 09:53 AM

this is somewhat easier said than done, the space in there is very tight. and how do you decide how much pull is 40 lbs? especially if you're only able to grab it with 2 or 3 fingers?

and also I suppose you're saying the problem we were having was caused by the tension of the belts?

does that mean that a rattling of the crank pulley will come from the belt being too loose? are you saying that the screeching means the belt was still too loose? and we should have actually kept tightening?

Seigisama · 05-05-2010, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dontbuyprelude

i know theres a procedure in the helms for determining belt tension. but what i did on mine is tighten till theres about 1/4"-1/2" of give in the belt at the longest span between 2 pulleys. give about 30-40 lbs of pull to the belt. works for me.

The proper belt tensioning measurement is 1/64" per every inch between the two longest points. Most people don't know this and leave the belts too loose.
Example a span of 32" would be 1/2" deflection.

Intermittent squealing could be a sign of a bad alternator bearing.

dontbuyprelude · 05-05-2010, 04:41 PM

klager01 · 05-05-2010, 05:17 PM

We have the Helms. we're doing the best we can considering neither of us has done belts before and its almost impossible to get and accurate feel on the belt by hand from above or bellow. We're just not sure if its a tension issue or not.

G_Loc · 05-05-2010, 06:17 PM

With the engine on, look at the a/c compressor pulley. Does it seem to wobble a bit? If so, the bearings inside the pulley need replacement, preferably sooner than later before more damage occurs.

ETA: If you remove the alternator / compressor belt, check the compressor pulley for any play. Rotate it to feel for any resistance. Also, try moving it up and down.

klager01 · 05-06-2010, 04:24 AM

Thanks G loc, very helpful. we'll try checking that next. but if the AC compressor didn't have any problems before is it likely that it would start failing while the cars been off and sitting on jacks for 4 days?

G_Loc · 05-06-2010, 08:12 AM

Eh, I'm just going off of what you said about a rattle.

When the bearings in my compressor disintegrated, it sounded horrible. It would rattle and screech seemingly at random. The sound would change when I would turn on the a/c and with engine speed.

What brand of belts did you purchase? Is the lock nut for the belt tensioner on and tight?

klager01 · 05-06-2010, 11:04 AM

the lock nut is on and tight, just checked it before work this morning.
We have Bando belts which is was Import RP recomended for OEM.
We're feeling a bit stuck, on the verge of puting out a call for the PO old timers to come have a look @ it.
Dinner and a 6 pack of choice for anyone willing to come make it stop lol

videogmike · 05-06-2010, 03:49 PM

let me correct kirstens post above me. I went and looked at the car this morning and checked the ac pulley with my hand. It spins freely as far as I can tell and does not appear to wiggle at all on its shaft. I did not however put the belt back on and run the car to look for a visual wobble. I can also say that the nut that tightens against the adjusting nut under the alternator was tight.
now that you ask though the bolt on the top of her alternator is not threaded all the way tight. I'm talking about the alternators pivot bolt. Its most of the way in but has gotten very very tight. I would hate to snap off the head. Since the alternator fits in the slot and just pivots as long as that bolt is tight I don't see how that could cause any issue.

ditto on the dinner and beer though if anyone who is local, knowlegable and willing to help.

videogmike · 05-10-2010, 05:40 PM

we decided to eliminate the a/c by using a shorter belt. we had a clunk clunk at first tightened it a bunch and now there is a squeel when starting the car, here is a video. what is this sound? it's been so long since i had my prelude i can't remember if this squeel is normal. it's very high pitched and loud and kinda hurts my ears when you start the car which makes me feel it's too loud.

YouTube - CIMG0111.mp4

dontbuyprelude · 05-10-2010, 06:40 PM

sounds like the belt is a bit tight

videogmike · 05-10-2010, 07:46 PM

but if we loosen it we get the clunk from what sounds like the crank pulley

dontbuyprelude · 05-10-2010, 09:59 PM

get a video of the clunk? LOL just loosen the belt a bit, try like 3 full turns on the tensioner thing. go from there. or just leave it. the belt will stretch a tiny bit. probably what i would do.

Lude Acts · 05-11-2010, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seigisama

The proper belt tensioning measurement is 1/64" per every inch between the two longest points. Most people don't know this and leave the belts too loose.
Example a span of 32" would be 1/2" deflection.

Intermittent squealing could be a sign of a bad alternator bearing.

Exactly what I thought when I read the "EEEE EEE EEE" sound. I've heard that once or twice in my life. You probably needs a new alternator. the stiffness of the new belt was too much for the old-ass bearing in the alternator. It worked fine because it was always under tension. Now you've relieved the tension, put a new belt on and put the tension back on it, but more-so, and now it can't handle the added stress. If I had to guess.....new alternator time.

You could test this by removing the accessory belts one at a time. If you have the AC belt off and the noise is still there, alternator problem. If you have the alternator belt off, and get the noise the problem is in the AC condensor or the PS pump. Just have a set of jumper cables on hand.

brotherdog · 05-11-2010, 02:59 AM

like lude act said ive dealt with that problem few months back, getting a new alternator ws the answer

videogmike · 05-11-2010, 06:47 AM

well the sound i spoke of in the first post we have decided was brought on by the ac, we have since eliminated the ac with a shorter belt and that squeek you hear at startup is just the alternator and crank pulley. the ps is also disconnected.
so you guys think she needs a new alternator AND a new ac compressor...damn.

and no i don't have a video of the clunking. i could loosen the belt and shoot one though if you guys think that would be helpful.

Glaucus · 05-11-2010, 02:20 PM

Just run the car without any belts and see if the sound goes away. Use process of elimination to pinpoint the faulty part.