I had some serious oil leaking coming from behind the timing belt. It was so bad mechanic couldn't tell exactly from where so they replaced both cam seals, balancer shaft seal and a few others. No more leaks but now my engine has a funny sound and it seems I can feel the engine vibrations more. It's more noticeable when cold but as I accelerate to around 4K I can hear what I can best describe as some kind of hollow buzzing sound - almost like what you'd hear from a very small exhaust leak. Overall the engine sounds louder but somehow de-tuned if that makes sense. When I hit vtec I heard a short high frequency buzz for half a second or so. Also noticed that starting from a dead stop in first gear the car has a greater tendency to shudder a bit, but that could just be me not shifting smoothly enough for some strange reason. But, it got me thinking that perhaps to access those seals they jacked up the motor and maybe they didn't tighten down the motor on the mounts properly (either too tight or not tight enough). Either that or perhaps they also had to loosed the exhaust, but I can't see why they'd need to remove or disconnect the exhaust.
I guess my question is, does what I describe fit with motor mount issues? Would they need to jack up the engine to access those seals? How can I test them? I only know of two motor mounts, the one on the timing belt cover and one by the exhaust. Where's the third? I plan on taking it back and get them to recheck the mounts, but thought I'd check here to see if I'm off base.
I had some serious oil leaking coming from behind the timing belt. It was so bad mechanic couldn't tell exactly from where so they replaced both cam seals, balancer shaft seal and a few others. No more leaks but now my engine has a funny sound and it seems I can feel the engine vibrations more. It's more noticeable when cold but as I accelerate to around 4K I can hear what I can best describe as some kind of hollow buzzing sound - almost like what you'd hear from a very small exhaust leak. Overall the engine sounds louder but somehow de-tuned if that makes sense. When I hit vtec I heard a short high frequency buzz for half a second or so. Also noticed that starting from a dead stop in first gear the car has a greater tendency to shudder a bit, but that could just be me not shifting smoothly enough for some strange reason. But, it got me thinking that perhaps to access those seals they jacked up the motor and maybe they didn't tighten down the motor on the mounts properly (either too tight or not tight enough). Either that or perhaps they also had to loosed the exhaust, but I can't see why they'd need to remove or disconnect the exhaust.
I guess my question is, does what I describe fit with motor mount issues? Would they need to jack up the engine to access those seals? How can I test them? I only know of two motor mounts, the one on the timing belt cover and one by the exhaust. Where's the third? I plan on taking it back and get them to recheck the mounts, but thought I'd check here to see if I'm off base.
There are FOUR actually, the two you mentioned (#3 & #4), then the tranny mount (#1) and also one on the rear of the motor between it and the firewall (#2). I do not know if your issue is motormount related or not though.
__________________ ASE Re-Certified Technician
Suspension and Steering (A4)
Brakes (A5)
Heating and Air Conditioning (A7)
Exhaust System Specialist (X1)
Automobile Parts Specialist (P2)
Automobile Service Consultant (C1)
im guessing you got a new timing belt and its a little tight. Sounds like the engine is straining, maybe like a retarded S/C. If thats the case it will go away after you got a good amount of miles on it, its normal.
Your description of noise and vibration sounds alot like a problem I am having. I just replaced my cam and balance shaft seals because of leaks. During that process you have to remove and reinstall the timing belt and balancer belt. The front balancer has marks on the block and pulley to properly align it to the crank and cams at TDC. However the rear balance shaft also needs to be positioned properly and this process is somewhat problematic. The description in the manual describes an inspection hole on the rear of the block where you insert a bolt to lock the shaft in position. I have explored this technique extensively and have found two different positions that the shaft "locks" to, and have read posts that other people have also had problems with this.(which one of these positions,180 degrees apart is correct) Before I removed my balance belt I made a mark on the rear shaft pulley. Still not feeling confident I did more research and decided on a different position. After reassembly I noticed the same strange vibrations, rpm dependent, and stutter at takeoff you describe. I will be soon taking the belt off and use the mark I made on the pulley before disassembly and expect the problem to go away. Bottom line, I think it could be your rear balance shaft, not lined up properly. My local Honda mechanic confirms these symptoms for a balance shaft not lined up properly. I am planning on doing this in the next few days and will report back to the forum with the results. satwilson
Quick update, went back and put rear balance shaft pulley in alignment with the mark I made prior to disassembly. This mark also matches a factory notch on the REAR edge of the pulley that both line up to the bottom center mounting bolt of the pulley mounting plate. This IS NOT the mark you see on the FRONT edge of the pulley. I was also able to confirm this with the bolt thru the shaft/inspection hole technique. Vibration, noise, hesitation GONE!!!!!!
Hey, thanks for the info. I took mine back to the shop and they told me a bolt on one of the engine mounts was loose. The car no longer vibrates while accelerating like it used to, but it still seems like the car vibrates more then it used to at idle. Also, it did nothing to eliminate the shudder at takeoff. So I'm thinking that what you're saying makes sense and that something was not put back properly.
Which is all interesting because my engine is leaking oil again, and although I haven't had the chance to inspect it, it seems that it's likely coming from the balancer shaft seal again. Is there any chance something's damaged that even with a new seal it will continue to leak oil? Are there ways to get around this, perhaps a bigger alternative seal I could use? Is this a known weak spot in the engine? I'll be taking it back to the shop sometime this week for them to give it a look but would like some info on this before I see them.
Balance Shaft Seal Caution For
1990-99 Honda 1.5, 1.6, 2.2 & 2.3L Engines
The AERA Technical Company offers the following information on a balance shaft seal caution for 1990-99 Honda 1.5, 1.6, 2.2 & 2.3L engines. This caution is expressed as the oil seal used for the front of the balance shaft may become dislodged, creating engine oil loss. In severe situations, engine damage has resulted before a leak was noticed.
Apparently, the seal retention is questionable on these engines and the seal may move within its housing at an undetermined time. To resolve this situation, Honda suggests installing a retaining clip within the seal housing to prevent the seal from moving. The repair involves removing the front timing belt cover and installing the clip. As the result of these seals moving Honda published a service bulletin describing the use of a new seal installer, Part #TN 07XAF-PT00100. This installer positions the seal deeper within the timing cover to allow room for the clip.
AERA is aware of another source for components regarding a similar repair of this condition, it involves bolting on a retaining plate as shown below.
I know accords of certain years were affected, but I noticed this lists 2.2 engines up to 1999. Mine's a '97 so could this be an issue for me as well?
The front balance shaft seal on my 98 prelude popped out and dumped 4 qts of oil in 10 blocks of driving. It did not have the retaining clip, which I did later install when I replaced the seal. The clip is available from Honda for a few $. Honda mechanics are aware of this serious problem but many others are not and it is not mentioned in any repair manual, so unless you work for Honda you are not aware this is an issue. These clips were a "fix" after the seals started popping out, they did not come with them from the factory. Make sure your mechanic is aware of this. Because of the volume of oil I lost my motor still dripped a little oil for a few days after I replaced my seals(there was oil all over the place) but now seems fine. I doubt your recently replaced front balance shaft seal is leaking or popped out but it could be, again make sure the retaining is installed. Improperly installed seals will still leak, the cam seals are kind of tricky to get right. As regards your motor still not running properly, you might ask your mechanic how he aligned the rear balance shaft belt pulley before he put the belt on. If his reply does not match the recommended procedure described in the repair manual, ( bolt thru shaft via inspection hole), you may have the same problem I had and then fixed. Good luck, satwilson
__________________ ASE Re-Certified Technician
Suspension and Steering (A4)
Brakes (A5)
Heating and Air Conditioning (A7)
Exhaust System Specialist (X1)
Automobile Parts Specialist (P2)
Automobile Service Consultant (C1)
Thanks TheJGB-2KTypeSH for the part#. One other detail, the clip does not come with the mounting bolt(6x1.0mm,about an inch long) and there was not one in the mounting hole on my motor(mounting hole just above the dipstick tab mounting hole). Not sure if mine was missing or what, but you may need to get this also. Glad to hear you have a warranty on the work. Let us know how it all works out.
Yup!! great photo. I think this part was released back around 1999 or 2000 as part of the Honda service bulletin so it's not that "new". It was certainly "new" to me last month when my seal popped out. I had changed my timing belt 6 months ago and thought I had done everything right. My car was warming up idling in the driveway when my seal popped out. I didn't notice the puddle of oil under the car before I left, but 10 blocks later my low oil light came on , I pulled over to check it out and it took 4 qts to top off. I limped home, found the puddle in the drive and here we are. I was lucky it didn't happen at speed on the highway, some people have ruined motors from this. It is a huge PITA to clean up the oil to prevent ruining the new belts. All of the pulleys and tensioners need to be removed, wiped down AND degreased. Ditto for the belt covers, crank sensors, the areas of the head, block under the belts, this is not fun. I know this problem has been around for years, I wish I had known about it before my seal popped. Many thanks to all who have contributed to this thread, it is important information to know when servicing the Tbelts and seals.
Yeah, I wish I had known about this when I had my stuff replaced several years ago. This is the only job I had a shop do and only because I just didn't have the time to try to do it myself. I supplied all the parts myself since I was planning to do it, but not this part and I wonder if they knew to do it.
It also seems strange that they didn't design that retainer to fit two bolts for added security. There is another bolt there that could hold the right side down.
A few details from the installation sheet that comes with the retainer....this part was DESIGNED to be installed without totally removing the lower cover. The instructions provided describe loosening the left side bolts holding the cover just enough to slip this part behind the cover into position. This saved Honda time and money because this procedure was covered if the car was still under warranty. Obviously the better design would have been to use the 2 bolts just above the shaft but then you would have to remove the valve cover, upper belt cover, etc, and would have cost Honda more time and money. The only good thing about their design is that you can see whether your car has the clip because the mounting bolt sits outside the cover with a simple visual inspection. Bottom line, even with only the one bolt, it should be more than enough to keep the seal in place.
The AutoGuide.com network consists of the largest network of enthusiast-owned enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
AutoGuide.com provides the latest car reviews, auto show coverage, new car prices, and automotive news. The AutoGuide network operates more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share opinions as a community.
Linear Mode
