Dyno comparo: Jun program vs chipped P13 - Honda Prelude Forum

LVSBB6 · 02-26-2005, 10:21 PM

So I hit the dyno today and made some runs to compare the JUN ecu and a chipped P13. Attached are the graphs:

RUN 39 is chipped P13
[img]http://www.*********************.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wODAyMTc3NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg[/img]

RUN 65 is the Jun ECU.
[img]http://www.*********************.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wODAyMTc2NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg[/img]

Here's my setup:

Iceman w/ HKS SMF
Skunk 2 IM
Jun camshafts
Jun valvesprings
Portflow retainers
Skunk 2 cam gears
Mugen Header
Test pipe
Tanabe Ultra Medalion
UR pulleys
Spoon 70mm TB
Quaife LSD
JUN flywheel
Exedy organic clutch
VAFC (untuned)
Stock head
Stock bottom end

Wheel:
18 x 7.5 Work Emotion (17lbs)

Tire:
225/35/18 Falken FK451 (22lbs)

Brake:
AEM big brake kit w/ Spoon caliper

Both runs produced rather similar WHP, but Torque is greater with the JUN ecu.
However, both of my max power tops out at ONLY 7000 rpm, most of the dynos Ive seen with Jun cams makes power all the way to 8000. Whats seems to be the problem here? I cant seem to maximize the potential of these cams.
Before the Jun cams I was running with TypeS cams and got 185 whp, I ONLY gained 7 whp by switching to JUN valvetrain, thats way too low than expected?
It seem like there's some restrictions from 7000 onwards, could it be my exhaust? I notice most ppl with Jun cams have 2.5 inches exhaust, but Im still using 60mm catback. Would that make a big differences in terms of high end power?

NXLude · 02-26-2005, 10:43 PM

I think you could make better numbers if you switch to a more precise fuel control......youd think youd hit higher than that whith what you got.....

LVSBB6 · 02-26-2005, 11:00 PM

Im switching to AEM EMS in next few weeks, hopefully will get more decent numbers and able to extract the power missing from 7000rpm onwards.
Do you think its beneficial to get a FPR and bigger injectors?

5genlude · 02-26-2005, 11:01 PM

So reading this I take it that the JUN parts will run on a H22A4?

sharkcohen · 02-27-2005, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LVSBB6

Im switching to AEM EMS in next few weeks, hopefully will get more decent numbers and able to extract the power missing from 7000rpm onwards.
Do you think its beneficial to get a FPR and bigger injectors?

I hope you have a good tuner that has AEM EMS experience.

What did your a/f look like? That would determine if you would need larger injectors. No, you wouldn't want BOTH larger injectors and an fpr. One or the other, and since you are getting the EMS the injectors make more sense than an fpr.

LVSBB6 · 02-27-2005, 12:27 AM

I couldn't get A/F reading today because the shop's wideband broke down, so it didn't allow me to do any tuning. Those are back to back baseline runs with 2 difference ecu's. What size of injectors do you recommend for my setup? I am still looking for an experienced AEM EMS tuner here, most of them are more familar with hondata, emanage, efi and motec systems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkcohen

I hope you have a good tuner that has AEM EMS experience.

What did your a/f look like? That would determine if you would need larger injectors. No, you wouldn't want BOTH larger injectors and an fpr. One or the other, and since you are getting the EMS the injectors make more sense than an fpr.

sharkcohen · 02-27-2005, 12:30 AM

I don't think you'll need larger injectors.

SunShine287 · 02-27-2005, 01:38 AM

With all the money you've spent on goodies here and there to extract a few whp here and there, why didn't you just go FI?

With your jun camshafts, springs and retainers you should be able to push that power up to 8k, as you said. You really do have alot of stuff, and it's important to make sure it all works together. I still haven't seen any spectacular dyno plots regarding the skunk 2 manifold... i don't even think you need that to break 200, but the point is you've altered your intake side pretty drastically, and you'll have to get it tuned accordingly.

Alot of the high hp NA guys tend to think the mugen header isn't ideal compared to a custom peice like a prospeed or whatever, but why spend near another g on a header when it could get you 1/3rd of a custom turbo setup....

azjs · 02-28-2005, 05:59 PM

one word - COMPRESSION.

Get that bottom end to compliment your jun setup.

-az

SK Honda 7 · 03-02-2005, 10:12 AM

WOW... thats a lot of goodies.... but no power to show for it.
I'm still surprised that you didnt go over 200 with all the stuff you have.

I think your p13 shows a much more smother power band then JUN one. Personally i would think you'd better stick with p13.

I would think you might need a FPR at least. Dont go for any fancy stuff. When i had my Crower Stage 2 cams... i got B&M FPR and it was more then fine for what i needed.

Injectors might not be needed. But then again... why do you have VAFC untuned and you runing a P13 and JUN. i would think the 2 systems (vafc/ecu) would miss send info. See if you can pull out vafc and run the car without it.

LVSBB6 · 03-03-2005, 08:22 AM

How many teeth does a 5th gen cam gear have ?

I'm trying to figure out what effect misaligning the timing belt on a cam gear by half tooth has on ignition timing. The shop that installed the cam gears for me says the Skunk 2 cam gears does not have correct markings and my timing is off by half a tooth. How would this affect performance??

SK Honda 7 · 03-03-2005, 08:44 AM

honestly i'm not sure how many teeth stock and aftermarket cam gears teeth have... but i do know that they are both the same.

i compared mine with skunk 2 when intsalling them and they the same.

As long as both cam gears are set right so that both notches are pointing up and the engine is at TDC, it should be ok. Remember to miss a tooth on the cam gears is very easy when you put the belt back.

I would think your problem lies in installation. My thing is turn the crank till its at TDC and check the cam gears. Make sure they are both pointing in the same directions and are equal ( if the mark on one is point straight up... and the other is slightly of ...say a TOOTH) then you could have a problem.

that one tooth is enough to mess up your timing.

Adjusting cam gear timing is in DEGREES. so that means.. if its of by a tooth you look ing at 4 degrees possible of the correct timing.

RECHECK everything on your own. since i dont think your car is running as strong as it should be.

Dragazn · 03-03-2005, 09:26 AM

Are you getting your head P&P to take the full advantage of the cams?

SK Honda 7 · 03-03-2005, 11:37 AM

i think he should see a lot more gains even without P&P.

but his main power gain is going to come from pistons. those cams love high compression.

alphajesse · 03-03-2005, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LVSBB6

How many teeth does a 5th gen cam gear have ?

I'm trying to figure out what effect misaligning the timing belt on a cam gear by half tooth has on ignition timing. The shop that installed the cam gears for me says the Skunk 2 cam gears does not have correct markings and my timing is off by half a tooth. How would this affect performance??

It won't affect your ignition timing. The sensor for that is in your oil pump.

LVSBB6 · 03-06-2005, 07:18 PM

Got my car checked again today, my car was off one tooth with the S2 cam gears.
Swapped it out with Jun cam gears and everything is now in perfect position. From the feel of the pants, the gains is MUCH more noticeable now. I was running the above dynos with terrible timing.

I will take the car to dyno this weekend again, stay tuned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SK Honda 7

honestly i'm not sure how many teeth stock and aftermarket cam gears teeth have... but i do know that they are both the same.

i compared mine with skunk 2 when intsalling them and they the same.

As long as both cam gears are set right so that both notches are pointing up and the engine is at TDC, it should be ok. Remember to miss a tooth on the cam gears is very easy when you put the belt back.

I would think your problem lies in installation. My thing is turn the crank till its at TDC and check the cam gears. Make sure they are both pointing in the same directions and are equal ( if the mark on one is point straight up... and the other is slightly of ...say a TOOTH) then you could have a problem.

that one tooth is enough to mess up your timing.

Adjusting cam gear timing is in DEGREES. so that means.. if its of by a tooth you look ing at 4 degrees possible of the correct timing.

RECHECK everything on your own. since i dont think your car is running as strong as it should be.

SK Honda 7 · 03-06-2005, 11:32 PM

WOW... I WAS RIGHT

would the words .... umm I TOLD YOU SO be ok to use.
Jk

Glad you listen to my advise. I been where you are and i know what it feels like. But unfortuantly i realized shop's fault at a late point of the game and ended up with a blown valvetrain and engine damage. Sooo... i'm glad i was hoping to save you time and agrevation.

Now i only ask that you post the dyno results. Let me live my dream through your car.

Cjanik · 03-06-2005, 11:52 PM

do you have a 5 speed or SS?

NoRice4U · 03-07-2005, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjanik

do you have a 5 speed or SS?

5 speed!

LVSBB6 · 03-07-2005, 07:06 PM

THANKS

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoRice4U

5 speed!