Balliso911

Rebuilding a H22a4, the previous owner spun a bearing in cylinder 2. There's significant scouring on the crank only where that bearing was.
My question is, can I get it machined down, polished, and cleaned or would I be better off buying a new one.
I'm trying to cut costs on this rebuild, but at the same time, I wanna do it right. Your suggestions are appreciated.

Balliso911

I can post pics if need be.

bouckarooo

ok you can rehone the mains on the crank but then you are goin to require a new plastigauge measurement to figure out what bearings you are goin to need. Yes you can do it and yes it is fairly straight forward however get a machine shop to do it and get a pro to reinstall everything, but realistically the whole engine should be torn down. you could just take the crank out and hone, but if you are goin to hone you should also do the rods. either way it will be best if you remove the engine or else you will have hard if not impossible time trying to get the bearing measurement.

Balliso911

ok thanks, i took it to a machine shop that specializes in Honda's. The guy said the scouring was to deep. They recommend getting a new crank and def replacing the rod where the bearing had spun. Do you know any places where I could find a good used crank. Honda Majestic was like 650 for a new one.

Also, can you bore out the cylinder walls, or will i have to resleeve the block, its got like 140k on the motor. It has a small ridge at the top of the wall. Im not looking for Darton sleeves, just something comparable to OEM.

Thanks.

pIERCE

If you have some time, wait around and look on the for sale sections of this and other forums, I have seen cranks going for anything between $200-400. They are not new, but are probably re-usable.




You can bore our FRM cylinders to a maximum of .25 mm over, which translates to .010" over. Honda offers their OEM pistons in this oversize.

Anything over that and you need to resleeve. Resleeving is going to be expensive any way you look at it or any way you go, darton or not.


Good luck.

Glaucus

Last summer I bought a used crankshaft from a guy on honda-tech: cul8tr. He had more then the one I needed, he may still have one. Just make sure you tell him exactly what engine you have. The one he sent me worked fine, but was from a JDM engine which needed a different crank bolt (14mm instead of 16mm).

Balliso911

thanks guys, i appreciate the info. Yeah i saw at Honda Majestic they offered an oversized piston and rings. I guess my question would be, if i can bore it out, am i going to run into the same issue 50K down the road. Will i have to be pulling the motor out and putting sleeves in it then. Would you think i would be better off sleeving it now that i have everything broken down.

Also, i have been doing my research on local shops and found one im going to go with. Any advice for dealing with the shops. Thanks again.

pIERCE

The problem with all of these questions below is that they aren't really specific. It's not about the answer, it's about asking the right question.

Answers in red.
None of these questions have any point, or reason. You need to be MUCH more specific.




Make absolute sure they know how to deal with FRM lined cylinders. PERIOD. If they don't?

bouckarooo

peirce, i say top this guy why not rebuild after 50000m, if his motor gives him issues then why not? Why not resleeve when you teasr downt he engine......new sleeves will give you more options and the potential for more reliability and or power.


if you are gopint to rebuild the engine the resleeve it will make tearing it down again much easier, then you can just get a hone and be on your lolly way with it.

Balliso911

Okay, sorry, more specifically if I bore the cylinder walls will that further degrade the life of the engine. Although very little is coming of the walls, I know there is not much room to work with. So, would it be smarter to go with oversized pistons, rings, and bore, or spend more money for a resleeve.
I hope this clarifies.

pIERCE

That completely depends on money you have to spend, and convenience you want to pay for.

Convenience: resleeve

Money saver: bore .010" over on the FRM.


Honestly, if I were in your position and had the money, I would resleeve.



Bouck--Honestly man, I think if you are in the mindset of rebuilding your motor after a mere 50k miles......you might as well run to the hills. Unless you are running a block on 20 psi of boost or something, I see absolutely no reason why you'd EVER need to go out of your way to intentionally rebuild your engine after only 50k miles.

I think there is somewhat of a mis-communication between you and I.....I sort of feel like I don't understand what you are saying, or visa-versa.

bouckarooo

what are you on?? if the motor has a severe issues and needs to be rebuilt then it needs to be done, regardless of the mileage. Say someone ragged thier lude and only put on 50000 miles, but during thos fifty thou they hadn't kept up on the maintenance, and the rings were screwed or they spun a bearing, or they over reveved, or had severe detonation..... there are tons of reasons why the motor could need rebuilding after 50000 miles. The OP obviously has some sort of issue with his car that his engine requires attention. Dont go and tell him it is bad to rebuild after 50k miles.....it may need it. Just cuz the mileage is low does not necessarily mean it is "good" mileage. The engine can get screwed after 1 mile if you drive it wrong. Hell i blew a b18 about 4 years ago during the break in period(brand new rebuild with not even 500 km on it), i had the crank pulley come loose and the timing got screwed, in the end had to replace the pistons and the head. **** happens, whether at 1 mile, 500000 milkes or 300000.i also had an integra that i had put almost 900000 kilomteres on and it still ran like a champ(my blessed red rocket, i miss her so much. If it needs to be rebuilt then rebuild it regardless of mileage.

on another note, one of my freinds who races his s13, rebuilds it every 6 months........are you going to tell him it is bad to do?? if you tear down your engine and replace the rings every season then you are goin to get better life out of the internal compooinents. Why is this you ask? Well for one you can visually inspect each one to make sure they are performing the way they should and two by rebuilding you are always making sure they are within specification and are checking for wear and tear replacing the parts when needed so as to prevent other ones from failing.

i dunno, i kinda think you need to rebuild a few engines to realise the benefit of doing so.

to the OP rebuild if you have the desire and if not then dont, dont let teh mileage command what you do.

pIERCE

^^Heh, ok man. I still think rebuilding an engine at intervals like changing your oil is sort of ridiculous. At least if you don't have a full machine shop in your back yard.

Unless I was made of money or a pro racer, I would never rebuild my engine and wake up the next morning thinking..."...you know, I think I'll rebuild it again in a year or so... You know, just for good measure."

That just sounds, wasteful and weird.

Don't get me wrong, I understand fully the benefits of thinking or even doing this. Or the benefits of your friend replacing rings every 6 months. However, what's funny about that is that in doing that without rehoning the cylinders, you'd think that they wouldn't seat right.

Either way, it sounds like complete overkill.

bouckarooo

Honing is part of the rebuilding process my freind.....so is checking the bearing crush and torqueing the rod bolts among many other things; if you know how to rebuild an engine then you know all this. By the way machine work is fairly cheap if you do the assembly and dissassembly yourself. And also, people dont wake up in the mornign and decide to rebuild, its a process that is based on a number of factors. racing enthusiests have no issues rebulding their rides and many will have two to three engines on the go at any point so they can just take one out to be rebuilt and install an already working one. Also many times when people who race rebuild, they dont do an extensive break in period, they make a full throttle pass to seat the rings. Long break in periods are meant for engine that are going to be seeing upwards of 150 - 300+ thousand kilometers. Anyway i think you need to spend more time in the garage peirce so you would have a better concept of the results of a rebuilt engine as well as have a grasp on exactly what is involved in the task. To you it seems weird and expensive but that is becuase you dont know what you are doing and have to pay other to do it for you when needed. personally, one of my closest freinds is a journeyman mechanic and often we work on engines, tearing them apart and rebuilding them, it is quite fun and i consider it to be a great hobby. To you it may be work but to many others it is a fun way to spend time.

Anyway , i am done with this........to the OP good luck on the rebuild, if you can i would resleeve as then that way you will have more options as to what you want to do with your bottom end. As far as honeing the crank mains, do all of them but also do the rods, this way there is tighter fit which in turn leads to a more efficent heat path prolongint eh lfie of the engine.

pIERCE

The OP is not a pro or a frequent racer that rebuilds engines.

Why are you arguing that point(that rebuilding that frequently is good for "real" racers) if nobody ever said in this thread that that was the case?

bouckarooo

^lol......


op....good luck with your rebuild, let us know how it turned out and whetehr or not you resleevd of just had a honejob. By the way if you are ogin to hemn the FRM make sure the shop you go to knows how towork with the frm sleeves.

Balliso911

once again, thanks for the information, however didnt mean to cause a fight.

money is an issue, however, i dont want to cut corners on the rebuild. If it means me spending extra money on a resleeve, thats what i would do. If i could still have a strong motor, with a potential for a long life if i went for the slight bore, then i would do that.

i am asking the question because i obviously dont know. If it is smarter to go with a resleeve or bore and get the oversized pistons and rings on a rebuild.

Well im not going to kick a dead horse. bouckarooo you answered my question, thanks for the help.

indylude18

^To continue beating the dead horse...the most cost-effective way out of your situation would be an engine swap. If you're not going for power gains or trying to build a race car out of it, then just do an engine swap. It's true you wouldn't be getting a "new" engine, but jdm H22's with low mileage are pretty easy to find. Also, it is not all that uncommon for a well maintained H22 to last well past 150k miles.

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Bluetop H23a Vtec Swapped NHBP '99 Base

Balliso911

Don't mean to sound ignorant but, if I get a swap engine wouldn't that mean I would have a rebuilt tittle. Being there will b non matching VIN's. No I don't plan on racing it and I'm not sure how far I want to go with mods (money). But I prefer to keep the original motor.

bouckarooo

^ do both, spend the 1500-1800 on a new engine(or elss depending if it comes with trans and ecu) and then save money until you can feasibly afford to rebuild the other motor with the matching vin. In my opionion (and to some it doesnt coutn worth squat....) if you do this then your are in betterer shape than most as if you do have any engine issues down the road you have a brand new engin to put in; as long as you do not try to sell the car when it has the non mathcing vin engine in it, the title will remain the same. Then when you have your rebuild complete have that engine installed and if you need the money then try and sell the swap engine to recoup some of the costs. I dunno there are multiple ways of going about it but Indylude is right, the most cost effective way of fixing your lude is going to be swapping engines, however even this has a cost as the engine you are more than likely goin to get will be an h22a and not an h22a4(unless you specify that is the engine you would like) and will require some parts to switched over for it to run correctly. How big is your budget?