So to make sure I'm on the same page the JDM injectors are P&H 310 cc and the USDM are saturation 280 cc types. The JDM injectors will work but would require the use of the 4th Gen resistor box to keep from frying the 5th Gen OBD-II ECU is this correct? If so at what point should you consider moving to the larger injectors, as in what mods or is this something that "plays" nicer with some of the standalone tuning units out there?
4th injectors are larger and are peak and hold injectors where 5th gen injectors are saturated. P+H injectors have a quicker response time vs the saturated (which tend to be cheaper).
You can use 4th gen ECU w/ saturated injectors (5th gen). But you can't use P+H injectors w/o a resistor box or else it will burn the ECU out.
You can find the resistor box on ebay for ~$25... that said, I have one.
So besides flowing more CC, the P&H should technically be better injector due to that faster response. I would think that anyone keeping an OBD-II setup would be best served sticking with the USDM injectors until they're at the point of trying to make every last gain count.
The thing that is subject to debate is the manner in which these injectors are being driven. From what I have read, the drivers in the Honda ECU are not true P&H drivers, hence the need for the ballast resistors. A true P&H driver delivers an initial high current signal to rapidly open the injector, then a lower amperage signal is used to keep the injector open. To do this correctly, the injector needs quite a bit of current, which is hampered by the use of ballast resistors to raise the impedance of the injectors to the range of saturated injectors. IIRC, a P&H injector ideally needs 4A to open rapidly. IIRC, the ballast resistors are about 8 ohms (or is it 6 to 12???) with the injector that's around 10 to 12 ohms, so just about 1A or a little over in current is supplied to the injector.
Anyway, after much research, I just use saturated injectors in my car. Stock 5Gen for now, but soon to be S2k injectors.
I'd be curious to see if there was a way to measure performance of a P&H injector on a Honda ECU with the ballast resistors and a similarly sized saturated injector on the same ECU. I'd imagine there would be very little, if any difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith
4th injectors are larger and are peak and hold injectors where 5th gen injectors are saturated. P+H injectors have a quicker response time vs the saturated (which tend to be cheaper).
You can use 4th gen ECU w/ saturated injectors (5th gen). But you can't use P+H injectors w/o a resistor box or else it will burn the ECU out.
You can find the resistor box on ebay for ~$25... that said, I have one.
Yes, but I'm sure that's because the injectors physically flow more, not just because they're P&H. I don't think that's what you're trying to say, but just clarifying. The 4Gen injectors are larger than the 5Gens, though. The S2k injectors are 370 cc/min, I think. Maybe 380 cc/min. They're at Witch Hunter right now, so I should have them back sometime next week.
One more question with the swap, there were some threads about both the crank pulley as well as the balancer shaft gears stating they should be swapped as well. Is this accurate and if so is there a reason behind it?
actutally yes, i do believe it is necessary. i wish i could find it, but i saw a post where someone actually compared both gears and there is a difference. i would like to hear some more info on this subject though...
so, basically, in order to make your jdm h22 obd2 you need to swap the oil pump housing, since you're swaping the oil pump housing you need to swap the balance belt and crank sprockets also. thanks again for the key info!
FYI, I got my JDM motor for $1150 shipped from Chicago. You can find JDM P13 ECUs for $150 but you are better off with a USDM as they don't have a speed limiter.
I've already stated before that if you decide to use the 4th gen oil pan, you'll need to also use baffle pan and oil pick up... use which ever you like.
The IMs are slightly difference with the 4th gen (JDM or USDM) has less vacuum lines available. The casting is slightly different on the runners (from the outside anyhow).
I took the opportunity to have my injectors balanced and cleaned. As well, I installed a UR crank pulley. New power steering and alternator belts would be worth considering. I also did a light port and polish on my exhaust ports with the trusty old dremel.
Keith
Is this price just for motor only?
Do you know how much it is for tranny, half shaft, and axles?
I need to get my car back running so i'm gonna need to do this soon.
__________________
Current rides
2004 Suzuka Blue S2000
Mods:
HKS Intake, J's 60rs, Megan Test pipe, Megan Coilovers, 16" TE37, Shift Beeper, Pre-04 Slave Cylinder
1997 Eucalyptus Green Pearl Prelude Type SH (In progress)
SH to JDM H22 conversion
Mugen header, Greddy EVO Exhaust, AEM Cold Air Intake, Avic D2, OEM Lip
Stuff to do: Suspension (i have knock)
im doing SH to JDM H22 conversion within a month.
thank god this thread came up when i needed, thanks for all the info guys.
So here is conclusion.
i have to change
1. Throttle body to 5th gen (or change both IM and TB)
2. Timing belt assembly including the oil pump housing.
3. Wire Harness for engine.
I do have number of goodies from my engine build.
I have question though....
what is downside if i just used OBD1 ECU.
What do i have to do in order to run OBD1.
We dont have emission nor safetly insepection in florida so i dont have to worry too much on it.
and 1 more question which header do i need to buy in order to bolt onto my exhaust system, because i believe SH header is different length than the base one...
thank you
__________________
Current rides
2004 Suzuka Blue S2000
Mods:
HKS Intake, J's 60rs, Megan Test pipe, Megan Coilovers, 16" TE37, Shift Beeper, Pre-04 Slave Cylinder
1997 Eucalyptus Green Pearl Prelude Type SH (In progress)
SH to JDM H22 conversion
Mugen header, Greddy EVO Exhaust, AEM Cold Air Intake, Avic D2, OEM Lip
Stuff to do: Suspension (i have knock)
im doing SH to JDM H22 conversion within a month.
thank god this thread came up when i needed, thanks for all the info guys.
So here is conclusion.
i have to change
1. Throttle body to 5th gen (or change both IM and TB)
2. Timing belt assembly including the oil pump housing.
3. Wire Harness for engine.
I do have number of goodies from my engine build.
I have question though....
what is downside if i just used OBD1 ECU.
What do i have to do in order to run OBD1.
We dont have emission nor safetly insepection in florida so i dont have to worry too much on it.
and 1 more question which header do i need to buy in order to bolt onto my exhaust system, because i believe SH header is different length than the base one...
thank you
If you can get away with not being OBD-II compliant thats probably an easier route to take, there would be no need to port over the OBD-II specific parts. You can keep the JDM distributor, ECU, injectors, oil pump etc...
As for the header/exhaust you dont need to change it when going from a SH to base since the differences are to accomodate the ATTS unit which you'll no longer have. My car is currently running a JDM H22A and the SH header/exhaust, the only fitment issue is the header mounting to the rear of the motor since they mount differently between the SH and the base models.
As a side note to this thread I'm currently taking pictures of everything OBD-II specific since they're all off my old motor now. Once I have all this swapped over correctly I'll also include pictures of the JDM pieces for comparison. Hopefully it'll help people identify why certain changes are necessary.
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