I am going to be doing the JDM H22 swap into my 99 Prelude. I have done lots of searching so that I can minimize the redundant questions as much as possible. I suppose I will do a summary of my findings then ask questions.
- The JDM H22 is a closed deck design, obd1 (which is easier to tune), slightly higher compression (10.6:1, therefore greater gains from modification), and best…not very expensive. Both the USDM and JDM motors make 200 hp. Because of the 10.6:1 CR, the JDM H22A has slightly more torque (JDM = 161 lb-ft, USDM = 156 lb-ft). I've read that the JDM H22A is a more powerful motor because of a slightly better head design and the more aggressive ecu maps. Again, from reading, it looks like they dyno in the 170's in stock trim.
-I will be purchasing the Non-Type S/ Non SIR S-Spec motor from hmotorsonline.com.
I called them and they quoted me $1200 just for the longblock (full motor) + $200 for the JDM p13 ecu + $180-$190 shipping to Pennsylvania from California. I have not made the purchase yet simply because funds are not available at this time. I’ve called other places and this shipping quote blows others completely out of the water. If you want the JDM p13 ecu from them without buying the motor, it will run you $250.
-There are quite a few things that need to be swapped from your obd2 5th gen h22a4 motor to the obd1 jdm h22 motor to make the swap go nice and smooth. Here goes…
-The jdm intake manifold, from what I’ve read, is the same as the 5th gen intake manifold. If you would like to use the jdm intake manifold and throttle body, you will need a 4th gen firewall mounted MAF sensor. If you would like to avoid purchasing the 4th gen MAF sensor, then use the jdm intake manifold with the usdm throttle body by swapping your throttle body over to the jdm motor. However if you'd like to make things as simple as possible, just use your 5th gen intake manifold and throttle body.
- Here is the bulk of what you'll need to swap into the JDM H22A from your H22A4:
Oil pump housing + TDC & CKP sensor, distributor, alternator, ignition coil, thermostat housing, 5th gen obd2 engine wiring harness, alternator bracket, the knock sensor and the timing and balance belt sprockets.
-If you plan on running obd1, you'll need an obd1 ecu (JDM or USDM), 4th gen VTEC injectors (Peak & Hold 310 cc), an obd1 resistor pack (from any Honda), and an obd2a-obd1 ecu conversion harness.
-With your JDM H22 in your possession, there should be a few things that you should do to ensure that it has a long healthy life. First, obviously, you’ll need to swap all of the parts that I mentioned above from your H22A4 to your JDM H22. After you’ve swapped all of those parts over, I would recommend:
-Valve Adjustment tool to do a valve adjustment
-Aftermarket Cam seal (STR, Golden Eagle, Forum Racing, etc.)
-Valve Cover gasket set with spark plug well grommets (might as well do this since you’re going to be taking off the valve cover to replace the cam seal)
-OEM Honda Rear Main Seal (why not? They’re only $11-$12 from majestichonda.com)
-OEM Honda Water pump (I don’t think I need to give an explanation of why the water pump and timing belt are extremely important)
-OEM Honda Timing Belt
-OEM Honda Balance Shaft Belt (if you’re not going to keep your BS belt off)
-OEM Honda Manual Tensioner conversion (the whole thing can be purchased from importrp.com, they include every part necessary for the conversion for $89.00)
-Spark plugs, Distributor Cap, Distributor Rotor, and Spark plug wires.
-Both Accessory belts (alternator and power steering belts)
-While my motor and tranny is out, I might as well put some fun stuff in there:
-ACT Stage 2 HDSS disc with heavy-duty pressure plate
-Fidanza 9.6 lb flywheel
-Technafit SS Clutch line
-OEM Honda Slave Cylinder
-OEM Honda Axle Seals
-Energy Suspension Motor Mount Inserts
-Crank scraper (from crankscrapers.com)
-Hondata Thermal Intake Manifold Gasket
-With the motor back in the car:
-New Oil and Oil Filter
-New Coolant
-New Tranny Fluid
-This will be all you need, with the exception of the fun stuff, to make your JDM H22 compatible with your 5th gen lude.
-If you have experience in this area please post with corrections or good information and I will edit my post and add the new info.
-In my searching I primarily got my info from one person. I would like to give Keith all the credit for the knowledge that I have condensed and passed along in this thread. I also got a few tidbits from NotoriousSH. Thank you both!
Now for Questions:
-What is with the oil pan swapping thing? I don’t understand the point. Some people say don’t worry about it, then others will recommend it.
-From reading, I’ve gathered that the vacuum lines on the jdm intake manifold are a little different. Is there any truth to this? Those of you that have done this swap, what are your thoughts on this?
-I live in Pennsylvania and I need to be able to pass emissions. I plan on going obd1. How easy is it to pass emissions using my obd2 ecu? Will I need to swap things back and forth to make the obd2 ecu useable for passing emissions?
Nice synopsis of what's required, I never thought about axle seals on the trans and I'm yet to get a straight answer on the oil pans. My swap will start this Saturday and I'll be going from a SH to a JDM H22 w/JDM LSD trans and almost all of the recommendations you've mentioned.
I believe that if you run the setup you're talking about with your USDM OBD-II ECU you'll pass emissions fine. When you want to run OBD-I you can swap the ECU back via a OBD-II --> OBD-I harness from boomslang or Marcucci etc...
I'll try to pinpoint some of the lingering questions once my motor is out and they're working on it. I'll also have my old motor and trans back once its done so I'll be able to pull it apart and see what kind of shape its in.
awesome dude, thanks for the reply. i did notice that you had alot of posts about the jdm h22 subject. i was under the impression that using the obd2 ecu for emissions was just a matter of swapping obd1 ecu and coversion harness harness out for the obd2 ecu, but i just wanted to make sure. if anyone else can back this up for sure, i'll put that info in my original post. i'm glad to see i'm not the only one that doesn't quite understand the reason for swapping oil pans, haha. now i just wanna get some info about the intake manifold differences.
FYI, I got my JDM motor for $1150 shipped from Chicago. You can find JDM P13 ECUs for $150 but you are better off with a USDM as they don't have a speed limiter.
I've already stated before that if you decide to use the 4th gen oil pan, you'll need to also use baffle pan and oil pick up... use which ever you like.
The IMs are slightly difference with the 4th gen (JDM or USDM) has less vacuum lines available. The casting is slightly different on the runners (from the outside anyhow).
I took the opportunity to have my injectors balanced and cleaned. As well, I installed a UR crank pulley. New power steering and alternator belts would be worth considering. I also did a light port and polish on my exhaust ports with the trusty old dremel.
ERIC JAPAN ENGINE
3900 N ELSTON AVE, CHICAGO, IL 60618
Phone: (773) 463-8108
Speak to -> John Lin (english isn't the best so be patient)
I know 4-5 people who have bought H22As from them and had no problems. Plus, they even come with a warranty! Tell them Keith from St. Louis referred to and you'll be able to get that pricing. Sorry HMotorsonline.com... but they weren't very helpful when I bought a header from them after they told me there was no problems with it at. I received it with damaged to the downpipe after I specifically asked them if there was damage there.
I ended up using the 5th gen TB and IM... well, my TB is a P + P S2K TB... But the older 4th gen TBs have the map sensor mounted on the firewall where the 5th gens have it mounted on top of the TB. My 5th IM was port matched to my S2K TB as well so it was a no brainer. I would just use a 5th gen and save yourself the hassle of potential missing vacuum lines.
I had my injectors cleaned and balanced by Cruzin Performance http://www.cruzinperformance.com/. Rich (the owner) does a great job explaining the process and gives you a ton of details. They also document everything and they MUCH cheaper than RC Engineering. That said, I cleaned up the peak and hold injectors (since it came out of a 94 Prelude) and after getting the before and after statistics, I didn't really need to do it. Oh well... better safe than sorry I suppose.
FYI, I got my JDM motor for $1150 shipped from Chicago. You can find JDM P13 ECUs for $150 but you are better off with a USDM as they don't have a speed limiter.
I've already stated before that if you decide to use the 4th gen oil pan, you'll need to also use baffle pan and oil pick up... use which ever you like.
Keith
I think the question is why would you need to change the oil pan at all, what are the differences between a 4th gen and 5th gen oil pan. Or is this something that has to do with the swapping of the oil pump housings for the CKP and TDC sensors?
lol, i'm still with you thatpreludeguy! i still don't understand what would warrant changing them in the first place.
keith... i assume you used the 4th gen fuel rail and injectors then? i'm gonna call the motor place right now and then i'm gonna check out the cruizinperformance.com place. thanks again for all the info you're providing.
I think the question is why would you need to change the oil pan at all, what are the differences between a 4th gen and 5th gen oil pan. Or is this something that has to do with the swapping of the oil pump housings for the CKP and TDC sensors?
I opted to use my 5th gen oil pan... only because I had the 4th gen oil pickup and baffle pan already installed and the 5th gen oil pan covered Hondata bond, ready to install. There is no advantage in using either oil pan. Just a matter of preference.
I used my 5th gen fuel rail. Either should work just fine.
What about the "trans stiffner" I've read about in other threads, the 4th gens didnt have one and the 5th gens did? I remember there also being talk about the diffferences in pans when Moroso had first made their aftermarket one for our cars.
Sorry to be a PITA with questions but outside of seeing them both side by side I cant imagine whats different.
hell we should just get aol screen names and have a 3 way chat, lol! yea i read only a few things about the trans stiffner and nobody really said much about it.
keith, that cruzinperformance place is awesome! you weren't kidding about the amount of detail that they give you. that looks like a really good place.
and WOW you weren't lieing about john lin's english being "not-so-good"! lol! obviously, i just called him and he said he would send me the motor for $1150 including shipping which is awesome! no more hmotorsonline.com for me!
The 4Gens had a small engine stiffener that was on the side of the oil pan (the 4Gens also used a stamped steel pan). Along with the stiffener, the 4Gen used a stamped flywheel cover that provided no support at all. The 5Gen uses a cast engine stiffener that serves as the stiffener and the flywheel cover. Much more beefy. It will not work with a 4Gen pan (or the Mororo 4Gen pan replacement) as the stiffener bolts to the pan itself. You'll have to use a 5Gen cast pan to use the 5Gen engine stiffener. It's a much better design, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatPreludeGuy
What about the "trans stiffner" I've read about in other threads, the 4th gens didnt have one and the 5th gens did? I remember there also being talk about the diffferences in pans when Moroso had first made their aftermarket one for our cars.
Sorry to be a PITA with questions but outside of seeing them both side by side I cant imagine whats different.
__________________
Billy - 98 Prelude
#27 H2 NASA TX HondaChallenge
#27 PTB NASA TX Performance Touring Racing makes heroin addiction seem like a vague wish for something salty. -- Peter Egan
Marren is also good. They did my 5Gen injectors. I just sent two sets of S2k injectors to Witch Hunter. We'll see how they are. They're about the same price as Marren ($15 per injector). I'll let you guys know how good Witch Hunter turns out.
Where did you get an S2k TB? I need one or two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith
I had my injectors cleaned and balanced by Cruzin Performance http://www.cruzinperformance.com/. Rich (the owner) does a great job explaining the process and gives you a ton of details. They also document everything and they MUCH cheaper than RC Engineering. That said, I cleaned up the peak and hold injectors (since it came out of a 94 Prelude) and after getting the before and after statistics, I didn't really need to do it. Oh well... better safe than sorry I suppose.
Keith
__________________
Billy - 98 Prelude
#27 H2 NASA TX HondaChallenge
#27 PTB NASA TX Performance Touring Racing makes heroin addiction seem like a vague wish for something salty. -- Peter Egan
I got the S2K TB a LONG time ago... like 4 years ago. I found it on s2ki.com back when others didn't catch on that they would fit other Honda models. They range from $125-150 if you can find em.
so exactly where is the injector resistor box wired in? i assume close to the injectors, but i've never seen what the resistor box looks like and i've never heard people stating where they put them? i could search for this but, in the best interest of making this post a one stop deal, someone else with experience can post the relevant info.
So to make sure I'm on the same page the JDM injectors are P&H 310 cc and the USDM are saturation 280 cc types. The JDM injectors will work but would require the use of the 4t
But the older 4th gen TBs have the map sensor mounted on the firewall where the 5th gens have it mounted on top of the TB. My 5th IM was port matched to my S2K TB as well so it was a no brainer. I would just use a 5th gen and save yourself the hassle of potential missing vacuum lines.
There is no advantage in using either oil pan. Just a matter of preference.
