Don't know what kind of cams they are but will look into it next time when I bring it back to Honda. I have already suggested to my friend about adjusting the lash and he will get back to me about it soon. Thanks for being patience with me. Don't really have time to keep bringing it back and forth on a daily basis.
I'm not sure if this will work. About 6 months ago I swapped my h23 for an h22a1 and everything was fine until I was stuck in some snow about a month ago and I might have done something wrong to the car then because after that my engine felt weak. I thought it was my spark plugs so I changed those. Nothing. Changed my spark plug wires. Nothing. So I left the car running and took out the 4th spark plug wire. No difference. Put that back in and I take out the 3rd and the engine starts to bog put the spark plug wire back in and back to 'normal' again. So I tried the rest and it looked like both my middle cylinders were working fine but when I took the first spark plug wire out the engine would rev up instead of down. Weird right? So I let a few drops of water fall on the headers and the middle ones would make the water evaporate while the outer two weren't as hot. Especially the 4th one. I'm not exactly sure what is wrong with mine but it could need new fuel injectors unless someone here suggests otherwise. I hope this helps because since I'm new to this I don't know all the right terminology and I may not have explained it right so I apologize in advance.
I'm not sure if this will work. About 6 months ago I swapped my h23 for an h22a1 and everything was fine until I was stuck in some snow about a month ago and I might have done something wrong to the car then because after that my engine felt weak. I thought it was my spark plugs so I changed those. Nothing. Changed my spark plug wires. Nothing. So I left the car running and took out the 4th spark plug wire. No difference. Put that back in and I take out the 3rd and the engine starts to bog put the spark plug wire back in and back to 'normal' again. So I tried the rest and it looked like both my middle cylinders were working fine but when I took the first spark plug wire out the engine would rev up instead of down. Weird right? So I let a few drops of water fall on the headers and the middle ones would make the water evaporate while the outer two weren't as hot. Especially the 4th one. I'm not exactly sure what is wrong with mine but it could need new fuel injectors unless someone here suggests otherwise. I hope this helps because since I'm new to this I don't know all the right terminology and I may not have explained it right so I apologize in advance.
Dude, are you saying that your engine runs exactly the same without the spark plug wire plugged in on cylinder # 4????? You have either one hell of a misfire, no compression in that cylinder, or both. Your engine sounds like it's toast. Burnt toast. And it smells like it's time for a rebuild.
Itzroyal, I figured out yer problem. It's the high-flow cat throwing off the reading on your secondary O2 sensor. You can fix it for like $4. Here's a write-up with no pictures. You need 2 spark plug non foulers, and drill one of them out. Connect them together, then connect them to the secondary O2 sensor. Bam! No more issues. It spaces your O2 sensor away from the cat a little, and fixes the P0420, which is probably causing the other random misfire codes. Mechanical o2 Fix - evolutionm.net
Last edited by Lude Acts : 01-29-2009 at 12:21 AM.
Would that cause my spark plugs to turn all black within 2 months of replacing them and driving about 1000 miles?
The oxygen sensor telling the ECU to run your engine rich. Try the non fouler mod. It only costs $4. Honda will not do it for you, but if your O2 sensor was replaced not that long ago, it should be easy to take out. You'll spend longer drilling out the middle of the one non fouler than you will taking out and reinstalling the O2 sensor. And if this doesn't work, hey you only spent $4 and about an hours time. But I'm pretty sure it will. A high flow cat + a P0420 code is pretty much a dead giveaway that this is one of your problems, if not THE problem. Just make sure you take out the O2 sensor in the cat, not the one in the header.
I have a question about the aftermarket cams in my car. Since they brand is unknown, I can't adjust the cams to factory settings. Any suggestions? My car is way over dued for a valve adjustment and it takes forever to warm up the car.
The oxygen sensor telling the ECU to run your engine rich.
Actually, this is false. The secondary O2 sensor does not affect ECU fueling at all. Only the primary O2 does. The secondary is only there to detect catalyst efficiency for OBD2 compliance.
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Fuel Injector it was!!! Today I changed them and... viola! Car runs like a champ again. Actually since getting the swap it has never run so hard. I thought I was experiencing the raw h22 power but I was wrong. I thought the same actually; that the engine was toast but thank God it was only the fuel injector. I think you should give this a try if you haven't done so already. One last thing though. My check engine light along with my SRS still goes on.
Actually, this is false. The secondary O2 sensor does not affect ECU fueling at all. Only the primary O2 does. The secondary is only there to detect catalyst efficiency for OBD2 compliance.
So you're saying that the fact that he has P0420, along with a random misfire code for every cylinder, has nothing to do with one another? Even if that's true, it's worth spending the $4 to get rid of the code for the cat. It would be a start. Then he'd only have 4 CELs.
You do the non-fouler mod yet? Honda won't do it for you. It's something your gonna have to do yourself. Or take it to a non-dealership mechanic and they may do it.
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haven't gotten a chance to do anything yet... weather has been harsh last few weeks to do any work on it... hoping to go in sometime this week or next though
yo, the po420 is related to your misfire, but getting your valves adjusted is a very crucial thing to do. if you have aftermarket cams in the the chances of the valves being adjust properly is slim. the dealership won't do it cuz they don't want the hassle of dealing with aftermarket parts. aftermarket of not it is the same as adjusting stock cams. the reason being is the valves are adjust with the valves close. just ask one of the guys at the shop if they can do it as a side job. make sure the engine is ice cold when adjusting valves. should take about 30 minutes to do once engine is cold. yea sounds like your misfire is at an idle. another problem with putting in aftermarket cams is if they don't do it properly the car will be out of time and you really don't notice it running, cuz they will adjust the distrubutor in advance to make up for it. easy check just look at your distrubutor to see if it is turn all the way right or all the way left. honda dealerships usually get tech support from the engineers in torrence, cali. only if a car is still stock, if not they are on their own. do the $4 dollar thing. then check what i've told you. trust me i know what i'm talking about. i've been a honda tech for 8 yrs. i've seen most of the problems. really sounds like a valve problems. there is also one other thing that will cause these codes but it is expensive to fix it. try this first and back to me. pm me.
yo, the po420 is related to your misfire, but getting your valves adjusted is a very crucial thing to do. if you have aftermarket cams in the the chances of the valves being adjust properly is slim. the dealership won't do it cuz they don't want the hassle of dealing with aftermarket parts. aftermarket of not it is the same as adjusting stock cams. the reason being is the valves are adjust with the valves close. just ask one of the guys at the shop if they can do it as a side job. make sure the engine is ice cold when adjusting valves. should take about 30 minutes to do once engine is cold. yea sounds like your misfire is at an idle. another problem with putting in aftermarket cams is if they don't do it properly the car will be out of time and you really don't notice it running, cuz they will adjust the distrubutor in advance to make up for it. easy check just look at your distrubutor to see if it is turn all the way right or all the way left. honda dealerships usually get tech support from the engineers in torrence, cali. only if a car is still stock, if not they are on their own. do the $4 dollar thing. then check what i've told you. trust me i know what i'm talking about. i've been a honda tech for 8 yrs. i've seen most of the problems. really sounds like a valve problems. there is also one other thing that will cause these codes but it is expensive to fix it. try this first and back to me. pm me.
Our cars aren't adjusted that way. The timing is only adjustable by getting adjustable cam gears or having the ECU tuned. Moving the distributor on a H22 Prelude won't do anything. The timing will always just go right back to what the ECU tells it to be.
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When was the last time you took your car in for an OIL CHANGE? My Check Engine Light came on because when I purchased the car I assumed that the people selling me the car kept all the fluids up. I drove like that for a month before finding out that my oil was extremely low.
Go get an oil change and your problem light will go away. You can thank me later.
if the timing belt was installed improperly, by even i couple of teeth the car will start and run. it will have an obvious miss. ppl will try to advance the timing by moving the distrubutor to compensate for the missfire. this will only cover it up from the outside, sounds good, drives ok. the ecu can tell cuz it picks up knock. thats why the distrubutor is slotted for advance or retard. if you don't believe try it and put a timing light on the car and watch the numbers go up or down. cam gears were meant for bigger cams so you can advance the timing more than what moving the didtrubutor will do. please do your research before you make a comment.
You do the non-fouler mod yet? Honda won't do it for you. It's something your gonna have to do yourself. Or take it to a non-dealership mechanic and they may do it.
When was the last time you took your car in for an OIL CHANGE? My Check Engine Light came on because when I purchased the car I assumed that the people selling me the car kept all the fluids up. I drove like that for a month before finding out that my oil was extremely low.
Go get an oil change and your problem light will go away. You can thank me later.
I've done plenty of oil change.... if only it was this simple
if the timing belt was installed improperly, by even i couple of teeth the car will start and run. it will have an obvious miss. ppl will try to advance the timing by moving the distrubutor to compensate for the missfire. this will only cover it up from the outside, sounds good, drives ok. the ecu can tell cuz it picks up knock. thats why the distrubutor is slotted for advance or retard. if you don't believe try it and put a timing light on the car and watch the numbers go up or down. cam gears were meant for bigger cams so you can advance the timing more than what moving the didtrubutor will do. please do your research before you make a comment.
I've done my research, dude. I have never timed my prelude, but I've done my B16 Civic when I still had it. I know that you can move the dizzy on those to adjust timing, but I've read in a few places that the timing isn't adjustable via the dizzy on H22's. Let me see if I can find examples. I normally don't say things that I don't know to be fact because somebody like you will come along and try to start an internet beef. So let me find examples so we can clear this up. I may be wrong...
I know that, and the engine in question is an OBD2, so it applies. I'm usually not one for arguing on the internet, but that dude (Nhantech) came in here all cocky like "I've been a Honda technician for 8 years...this is how to time an engine...blah blah blah." The only Preludes you can time like that are OBD1's. This is the 5th gen section, not the 4th gens. And obviously the OP doesn't have an OBD1 conversion or JDM swap because Honda dealerships woudn't touch his car with a 10 foot pole if he did, and he's been getting all this work done at the dealership. Nhantech just gave me attitude like he was some Honda King and he doesn't even know how to work on his own car. And then calls me out like I'm the moron.
Hopefully the OP hasn't been taking his Lude to the dealership that Nhantech works at. LOL
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Last edited by Lude Acts : 02-13-2009 at 06:33 PM.
hey ppl like you are always making something out of nothing. this thread isnt about you or me. i'm just trying to help the poor guy out based on what i've seen and have worked on. so my bad if your ego is stepped on. as i recall you were the first one to call me out.
I've done plenty of oil change.... if only it was this simple
When was the last time you did an oil change on your car? Do you check it or does someone else check it? Do you have any oil leaks that you are aware of?
hey ppl like you are always making something out of nothing. this thread isnt about you or me. i'm just trying to help the poor guy out based on what i've seen and have worked on. so my bad if your ego is stepped on. as i recall you were the first one to call me out.
Dude, I've been trying to help the OP with this problem for over 2 months now. I had almost the same problem with my car not that long ago. You came in out of nowhere acting like it was definately the timing and couldn't possibly be anything else. Then you told him to do something to his car that isn't even possible, while bragging that you've been a certified Honda tech for 8 years so you obviously know what you're talking about, only to end up being wrong.
None of this I had a problem with. I'm pretty laid back most of the time, and think arguing about trivial things like this is stupid. The thing that got me was when you told me to "do your research before you make a comment". You've been a certified Honda technician for 8 years, but I knew that OBD2 H22's couldn't be timed that way after only 30 seconds of searching this forum.
It wasn't my ego that got stepped on, because I was right. It was your cocky, know-it-all attitude that pissed me off. And maybe not even so much an attitude, as it was that comment. I know better than anybody that the tone of a conversation is lost over the internet, and it is sometimes hard to tell how somebody means what they say. So I'm willing to just drop this **** now. I don't have the time or the energy to argue with somebody I don't know over something so insignificant. So whatever man. Sorry if I offended you at all. That first post I made in response to what you said wasn't really a call-out. I was just letting you know that what you were saying was incorrect. and if you read the post, I actually think I was pretty nice about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lude Acts
Our cars aren't adjusted that way. The timing is only adjustable by getting adjustable cam gears or having the ECU tuned. Moving the distributor on a H22 Prelude won't do anything. The timing will always just go right back to what the ECU tells it to be.
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Last edited by Lude Acts : 02-13-2009 at 10:49 PM.
lol best man of the group is the one that grins and bares it and moves on. lol if you really wanted it to end you wouldn't say no big deal and try to get the last word in :P
I was just thinking a simple thing to try... after making changes to your car have you tried resetting your Computer? Pulling the Radio/Clock fuse under the hood? Who knows maybe it just needs a reset... won't hurt and it only takes a few mins.
lol best man of the group is the one that grins and bares it and moves on. lol if you really wanted it to end you wouldn't say no big deal and try to get the last word in :P
Such is life lol
I wasn't trying to get the last word in, just trying to explain that this whole deal started over an obvious misunderstanding of how I meant what I said to him. Like I said, he thought I was calling him out, when all I was trying to do was make sure that the information given was correct.
This whole ordeal is just a big misunderstanding, and I'm over it.
BTW, This isn't me trying to get the last word in either. Feel free to speak at will. I'm kinda out of ideas on what could be causing the OP's misfire anyway. He's tried damn near everything already.
Sorry to everybody for the misunderstanding, the threadjack, and the almost full page we just wasted on eBeef. Let's all get back to helping Itzroyal.
I'm still waiting for him to do the non-fouler mod, so I can see if that helps. LMK when you get it done, and what the results are. Mechanical o2 Fix - evolutionm.net
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Last edited by Lude Acts : 02-14-2009 at 10:28 AM.
yea try the non-fouler mod first. cheapest. squash the beef! there is also something else that i have only seen twice happen. ppl dont run their cars hard enough and carbon actually builds up on the inside of the valve over the years. that right there will cause the car to have miss fires on all cylinder. i have tried to decarbon them with GM top engine cleaner, even soaking it over nite. not very much help. only quick solution to that if it comes down to it is to takw the head off and have the valves worked on. other long solution is to decarbon the car yourself once a week a few months. that may help it. thats why the egr ports get clogged up so easily in these cars if you don't run them hard.
I have already cleaned the ports and replaced the EGR. Afterwards, i drove the car really hard for a good 30 mins to burn off the excess carbon built up. Still showing up misfiring. I am bringing the car back this wednesday to have them run more test and see what happens.
yea try the non-fouler mod first. cheapest. squash the beef! there is also something else that i have only seen twice happen. ppl dont run their cars hard enough and carbon actually builds up on the inside of the valve over the years. that right there will cause the car to have miss fires on all cylinder. i have tried to decarbon them with GM top engine cleaner, even soaking it over nite. not very much help. only quick solution to that if it comes down to it is to takw the head off and have the valves worked on. other long solution is to decarbon the car yourself once a week a few months. that may help it. thats why the egr ports get clogged up so easily in these cars if you don't run them hard.
Haha. Where were you when I was having my random Cyl. 1 misfire? I could used that advice...I put $250 in the car for plugs, wires, cap & rotor, and a new Ignition Control Module inside the distributor, only to find out it was my damn EGR ports clogged. Cost me $3 for the plugs, $5 for carb cleaner, $5 for a set of brushes, and I borrowed my body guys slide hammer. HAHAHA I don't care though. Because that was the last thing I tried. That's why I thought I could be of so much help to Itzroyal with his misfire. Because I had the same damn problem and tried EVERYTHING (From a tune-up, to cleaning the IACV, cleaning the EGR Valve itself,to replacing the ICM...etc.) to solve it. I was one step short of replacing the distributor (which the OP already did) and switching ECU's (which I think he may also have done already.)
Itzroyal, you still need to do the non-fouler and valve adjustment, right?
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Last edited by Lude Acts : 02-16-2009 at 07:35 PM.
Didn't switch ECU. Ruling that out until last option.
Valve adjustment couldn't be done because after market cams are installed in the car from the previous owner.
Yeah, but I thought somebody said you can still adjust the valves to factory spec, because they are adjusted when they are closed. Honda won't do it, but a different shop probably will. Or you could do it yourself. It's not hard. The engine has to be stone cold though. I usually let my car sit overnight, then adjust the valves the following morning just to be sure. I wanted to do a valve adjustment on my car before, and I had been driving it throughout the day, and it took over 4 hours with the valve cover off and a fan blowing on the valvetrain for it to cool down to a temp. that I felt was cool enough. BTW, how does Honda know the cams are aftermarket? Did they measure the lobes? I don't get it. Maybe you could just take the car to a different dealershhip, and they wouldn't know that the cams are aftermarket.....
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you are right about the valve adjustments. it doesnt matter how big the cams are that you are running. all you are doing is adjusting them when they are closed to make sure that they are full closed when they are suppose to. any mechanic can do it for you. ask one of the honda guys if they will just do it one the side. have you been having this problem since you had the car?
Well there is the problem right there. Some goof put after market cams in the prelude thinking he was super cool. Probably ****ed it up and then sold it. Just buy a new engine and that will solve all your problems.
As of now, one of my buddy that works at Honda is driving my car for about a week or so to see if there is an actual misfiring. So far, the CEL is still on displaying multiple misfiring but he said it drives fine. The mechanic there will follow the procedures in the manual step by step to tackle this misfiring problem. I will ask them to do the valve adjustment according to what you guys suggested. The mechanic that has been working on my car did say the valves is really tight. I don't know how he is going to adjust it. -_-
how do they know that the valves are really tight unless they have taken off the valve cover and let the car cool down. can't even attempt to gauge it unles it's ice cold. no expansion of the metal. your buddy driving it won't help. the misfire you have won't be picked up by humans. its so slight that the ecu is picking it up through the knock sensor. why ask for help if you don't follow it. you are going to spend a lot more money getting it diagnose at the dealership. if you have that kind of money more power to you bro. you've already spent a lot of money already. the non- fouler mod is cheap and getting your valves adjusted is only 1.5 hr labor at most which is equal to 140 bucks at max. you are almost out of options. what else you have to loose?
"you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it".
He attempted to adjust the valves about two months ago... he couldn't do it because it was really tight. They are gonna start working on the car this Monday hopefully. I'm not paying the labor rate price because they are gonna work on it off the clock. I can't say when they gonna get everything done but can't be picky about it since they are doing it as a favor. I already suggested the valve lash to them and they will look into it for me. Probably won't hear anything back until mid week or so.
I don't know if I already mentioned this, but when I had my uber-irritating and persisitent P0133, what it finally came down to was Honda had to clear the code, the service advisor called it a "hard lock" or w/e. It made the light go away and I did believe the guy whole-heartedly because he didn't charge me anything, not even that initial $120 for them to look at it and say, "yep, CEL is on."
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You have either one hell of a misfire, no compression in that cylinder, or both. Your engine sounds like it's toast. Burnt toast. And it smells like it's time for a rebuild.
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