Can it?
From what happened to me, I'm not sure if it was the ATTS, went 40mph on a curvy road-actually it was an arc that was pretty much as archy as a half of a cirle. My SH spun out of control to the other side of the road and when I counter steered, the car immediately spun back to the other side easily. It was weird.
I don't know if that was the ATTS acting up or it happens to other cars. Can anyone explain or guess what happened? Or was 40mph too fast? To be exact it was close to 38-39mph, never surpassing 40mph.
i dont know about the way you drive or if you know your car but i can take 40 mph turns basically 90 degree turns at 90 mph with no problems...i never had problems with my car only when i got my new tires..thats all
Originally posted by JDM H22A4 i dont know about the way you drive or if you know your car but i can take 40 mph turns basically 90 degree turns at 90 mph with no problems...i never had problems with my car only when i got my new tires..thats all
What??? 90 mph on 90 degree turns???? SWEET JESUS? ARE YOU SERIOUS?
Were you in the inside part of the curve before the spinout, or the outer? What is the normal speed around that turn? Do you have stock tires? The tires adhesion isn't all that great, especially in turns.
I've taken turns hard in my SH a number of times, and outside of the tail stepping out at times (which I expected in those situations), I've never lost control (except on the autocross once), or had the ATTS act strangely to lose it.
__________________
James--'99 Ficus Green Pearl Type SH, 03' Starlight Silver Metallic Pilot EX-L, 02' silver Mitsubishi Galant ES
The value of life can be measured by how many times your soul has been deeply stirred...--Soichiro Honda www.hacstl.com...RIP 1999--2011
Originally posted by Jacques Were you in the inside part of the curve before the spinout, or the outer? What is the normal speed around that turn? Do you have stock tires? The tires adhesion isn't all that great, especially in turns.
I've taken turns hard in my SH a number of times, and outside of the tail stepping out at times (which I expected in those situations), I've never lost control (except on the autocross once), or had the ATTS act strangely to lose it.
It was a narrow street (entrance to a freeway) but I believe I was towards the inside of the road. The normal speed was 10 or 15 I think. I have stock tires. What type of tires are good? 7/10 times cornering 90 degree corners at 40mph and above, I lose control. I don't gas when I'm going that fast. Am I suppose to?
Since you're saying the turn is a turn into a freeway, and you took the inside part of that turn, why didn't you take the "outside line" of that turn, since it's a single lane anyways? As you're apexing that turn, then put some gas? I'm guessing you lost control when you put too much load on the front wheels, especially the outside front wheel, maybe understeering when this occured.
__________________
James--'99 Ficus Green Pearl Type SH, 03' Starlight Silver Metallic Pilot EX-L, 02' silver Mitsubishi Galant ES
The value of life can be measured by how many times your soul has been deeply stirred...--Soichiro Honda www.hacstl.com...RIP 1999--2011
It was a left turn and I believe I felt body roll, then lost control. What is an apex? It seems dangerous to gas it on a turn that I feel so much body roll. If I gas, I would be going alot faster than 40. Are you sure it's safe?
Going 40 on a turn that's only 15...that's not safe with any car to begin with. What also may have happened to you is that you took that turn "too hot" (too much speed entering it), and it was well beyond your tires' adhesion to control the car around that turn. Even ATTS won't save you when you lose grip.
As far as "hitting the gas", on an autocross course, hitting the gas is something I do...although often hit the gas before the apex to take full advantage of the ATTS (ie: the apex is generally the halfway part [middle part of the arc] of your turn). However on regular roads, if I faced that turn, I probably won't hit 40mph entering that turn, but may accelerate rapidly out of it. Needless to say, I can get away with more risk at an autocross, because it's a relatively controlled environment. The real world, however, is not the same way.
I would post here how I would take that turn, but for liability purposes I won't detail it here. You can PM me about it if you like.
__________________
James--'99 Ficus Green Pearl Type SH, 03' Starlight Silver Metallic Pilot EX-L, 02' silver Mitsubishi Galant ES
The value of life can be measured by how many times your soul has been deeply stirred...--Soichiro Honda www.hacstl.com...RIP 1999--2011
Shukuchi_SH, I definitely recommend a few days at a racing school! You shouldn't kill yourself cos you want to save $500 for a racing school. They teach you how to balance the car through the 3 stages of a corner, heel-and-toe double-clutch downshifting, threshold braking, spin avoidance etc.
I'm glad I don't have ATTS on my car. For the life if me I can't understand how you can counteract understeer by applying more torque to the outside front wheel!
Originally posted by Jacques (ie: the apex is generally the halfway part [middle part of the arc] of your turn).
That's only for a symmetrical corner, where the entrance speed is relatively equal to the exit speed. Generally the apex is the point were you lift off the brake and start accelerating...
Ferrari, I would love to go to a racing school but I don't think there are any in So California. Well, maybe there is but 500 bucks? For how many days?
I believe there a lot of driving schools in SO California (I went to LA once and fell in love with that place). Check Skip Barber, Bondurant etc. They'll be listed in the back of Car and Driver, Road & Track etc.
If you plan on driving aggressively I most definitely recommend a racing school.
Good point about the apex, Ferrari. I guess in my case, my apex is much sooner than most people if people were accelerating at a certain point on a corner.
Quote:
Originally posted by Ferrari I'm glad I don't have ATTS on my car. For the life if me I can't understand how you can counteract understeer by applying more torque to the outside front wheel!
When I sense that I may get some understeer during a turn, I hit the gas harder, and power it out. I end up cutting an even tighter line (and sometimes step the tail out a little). I dunno...it's hard to describe how it feels if you've never driven an SH. The characteristics are different than a car with LSD, to me anyways.
__________________
James--'99 Ficus Green Pearl Type SH, 03' Starlight Silver Metallic Pilot EX-L, 02' silver Mitsubishi Galant ES
The value of life can be measured by how many times your soul has been deeply stirred...--Soichiro Honda www.hacstl.com...RIP 1999--2011
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the ATTS is only really functioning when you're accelerating while turning? IE when not on the gas, it handles as if there was no ATTS.
Shukuchi,
don't worry. You're not the first lude driver to spin out and you wont be the last. In the first month that I owned my car, I've spun it twice. It's not that I'm a bad driver or anything, but a lil aggresive mebbe . But I analyized what I did wrong to spin the lude. First of all, the Ludes, as stiff as their suspension is (relative to other cars), comes from the factory way too under-tired, meaning that the tires lose traction way too early before teh suspension is really starting to work. When you do a sharp transient manuever like emergency lane change, the suspension, being very firm for a factory setup, loads the outside tires so quickly, that it overwhelms the tire and teh tires lose traction. In this case, it'd be more beneficial to have a softer sprung suspension becuase the "rolling" motion of the car gives the tires a longer time to take the load, and won't be so overwhelmed. I experienced this when I at 4 am, on a 8 lane highway, I decided to see how quickly my lude could change lanes in an emergency (trying to avoid soemthing in my lane). I was going about 70 mph, lost the rear end, over countered it, it spun the other way, over countered it again, and then spun 180 to a stop. Thank god that no one was around and that I didn't hit anything. I was wayyyyy too aggresive in doing the manuever, and becuase of that the rear end was rotating wayyy too fast for me to recover quickly. Lesson learned: don't push this car to its extreme limits with the stock tires on, as the tires are not suited to the suspension that the Prelude comes with.
The other time I spun out, it was within a week of getting the car, it was night, and I was on a downhill 360 degree off ramp that in the middle has a decreasing radius turn. I was a lil too hot entering the turn, was still on the brakes a lil (trail-braking) in the turn, and as the turn started tightening up, the rear end started to rotate on me. I was TOTALLY NOT EXPECTING THIS to happen, so my reaction time was really really slow and didn't countersteer until way later. The rear end came out 90 degrees, and I was going sideways for a moment until the car stopped in that position. I was still on the middle of the road, so myself and the car were fine. The car is setup to handle very neutrally, so if you come in too hot into a decreasing radius turn, you cna expect the rear of this car to start rotating on you, especially with the stock tires. Lesson learned: be very very careful when trailbraking into a turn, and expect the tail to possibly get lose.
As a recap, don't go crazy with the stock tires on your car and don't brake while turning at the limits of your cars handling, cuz that's just asking for your car's rear to get loose on you. I'm not trying to crap on the Bridgestone RE92s, cuz I think that they are a pretty good all season tire, but it's grip quality makes it more of a good match to a car tuned like a factory Accord. The stock lude suspension seems well matched to summer only tires, like the Parada, the Kumhos 712s and the RE730s.
I hope none of you guys think Im some kinda lunatic driver or anything, cuz I'm not. I just like to push things to their limits and wasnt prepared for the way the prelude responded. Ugh I need to get a track... GO AWAY WINTER!!!
LOL,this is a funny topic. I know I can take 35mph turns at 70mph. I have thought about making a mpeg on it. It has alot to do with your tires to. Also it has to do with driving skills. If you go around a corner at a constant curve its nice and easy, if you go into a corner then make a last second turn, tires can screech and you can possibly spin the car. The beautiful thing about ATTS is it makes your car seem like a RW drive car, so if your rear end starts to go out on ya back off for a split second turn the wheel the other way and gun it. Don't do it until you really get the hang of it. Theres more to it then that just thats the simple way of puttiing it.
since Shukuchi said he *didn't hit the gas*, there's no way it was the ATTS that caused you to spin.
this is most likely what happened:
you went into the turn too fast causing the car to slide. since you are too fast, you hit the brakes while you countersteered, hence causing the tail to whip out --> there's your spin out. too much countersteer plus braking is a (i saw this in Scriber's taped run at the Poconos last year.)
it was your technique, not the car.
this scenerio will cause a spin in ANY car.
Originally posted by ImagePree PilotSH hit the nail on the head.
since Shukuchi said he *didn't hit the gas*, there's no way it was the ATTS that caused you to spin.
this is most likely what happened:
you went into the turn too fast causing the car to slide. since you are too fast, you hit the brakes while you countersteered, hence causing the tail to whip out --> there's your spin out. too much countersteer plus braking is a (i saw this in Scriber's taped run at the Poconos last year.)
it was your technique, not the car.
this scenerio will cause a spin in ANY car.
Come to think of it, I don't think I braked at all. I didn't gas either when I was feeling alot of force. I just spun out 180, then countersteered which brought me back to my original position, back to the right side of the lane with complete stop.
Come to think of it, I don't think I braked at all. I didn't gas either when I was feeling alot of force. I just spun out 180, then countersteered which brought me back to my original position, back to the right side of the lane with complete stop.
in that case, take a run back to that circle where you *almost* spun out.
but this time, go in at about 30 mph. right before the middle of it, nail the throttle. what you should feel is the car starting to pull you INTO the corner (towards the inside of the turn.)
in that case, take a run back to that circle where you *almost* spun out.
but this time, go in at about 30 mph. right before the middle of it, nail the throttle. what you should feel is the car starting to pull you INTO the corner (towards the inside of the turn.)
Feel the car start to pull into the corner? Man that sounds sweet! Gotta try it!
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. But I analyized what I did wrong to spin the lude. First of all, the Ludes, as stiff as their suspension is (relative to other cars), comes from the factory way too under-tired, meaning that the tires lose traction way too early before teh suspension is really starting to work. When you do a sharp transient manuever like emergency lane change, the suspension, being very firm for a factory setup, loads the outside tires so quickly, that it overwhelms the tire and teh tires lose traction. In this case, it'd be more beneficial to have a softer sprung suspension becuase the "rolling" motion of the car gives the tires a longer time to take the load, and won't be so overwhelmed. I experienced this when I at 4 am, on a 8 lane highway, I decided to see how quickly my lude could change lanes in an emergency (trying to avoid soemthing in my lane). I was going about 70 mph, lost the rear end, over countered it, it spun the other way, over countered it again, and then spun 180 to a stop. Thank god that no one was around and that I didn't hit anything. I was wayyyyy too aggresive in doing the manuever, and becuase of that the rear end was rotating wayyy too fast for me to recover quickly. Lesson learned: don't push this car to its extreme limits with the stock tires on, as the tires are not suited to the suspension that the Prelude comes with.
(i saw this in Scriber's taped run at the Poconos last year.) 
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