Camber Kits not good for 5th Gens - Honda Prelude Forum

axngen · 02-27-2002, 10:34 AM

Is it true that camber kits particularly f*ck up our 5th Gen suspension in some way or form?

If not, I want to invest in one, b/c i don't want my new tires wearing too fast..

HRC · 02-27-2002, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by axngen
Is it true that camber kits particularly f*ck up our 5th Gen suspension in some way or form? If not, I want to invest in one, b/c i don't want my new tires wearing too fast..

my local alignment guy who does alot of the cars for the BAAE(Bay Area Auto Enthusiast) group here in northern cali does not recommend them. that's why i rotate every oil change, and plan to flip the tires every 10k(not sure if i'm to lazy to do this though!).

jc836 · 02-27-2002, 10:56 AM

Well goody there is another misinformed person out there.
I get to rant again <G>. Your alignment is critical to how the car performs-period. Read the articles written by engineers at both Ingalls and Specialty (sure they want to sell you something) and learn why these parts are important.
Rotating tires is good practice regardless of how the suspension is set up.
Do camber kits harm your car-NO WAY. Let me tell you from my own very expensive experience that the only thing the kits up front can have an issue with is contact with the angled part of the shock tower (the sloped part on the inner edge of where the shock is). Several kits were designed in such a way that they would hit this plate on hard/extreme compression of either Eibach Prokit or Neuspeed Sport springs (I'm currently on Sport). The solution for BASE 5th gen's is the Specialty 67135 as it is acutally smaller than its predecessor (67130). Lengthening the bumpstops has nothing to do with this BTW as the upper control arm is further up from the lowering.
We think the problem has been solved with the part change in my case. If you are using coilovers from either Skunk2 or Ground Control the spring rate for a drop of ~1.5" will be stiff enough to make contact less likely.
The rear suspension will accept kits from both manufacturers without any problems whatsoever. Check my setup page on hondaprelude.com to see what I have.
Want help, just e-mail me your alignment printout data and I'll try to point you the right way. OR, contact eithe Ingalls or Specialty for their opinions. For those reading this-there is a supplier for the front on SH model Ludes--www.northstarmfg.com - give em a call.

HRC · 02-27-2002, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jc836
Well goody there is another misinformed person out there.
I get to rant again <G>. Your alignment is critical to how the car performs-period. Read the articles written by engineers at both Ingalls and Specialty (sure they want to sell you something) and learn why these parts are important.
Rotating tires is good practice regardless of how the suspension is set up.
Do camber kits harm your car-NO WAY. Let me tell you from my own very expensive experience that the only thing the kits up front can have an issue with is contact with the angled part of the shock tower (the sloped part on the inner edge of where the shock is). Several kits were designed in such a way that they would hit this plate on hard/extreme compression of either Eibach Prokit or Neuspeed Sport springs (I'm currently on Sport). The solution for BASE 5th gen's is the Specialty 67135 as it is acutally smaller than its predecessor (67130). Lengthening the bumpstops has nothing to do with this BTW as the upper control arm is further up from the lowering.
We think the problem has been solved with the part change in my case. If you are using coilovers from either Skunk2 or Ground Control the spring rate for a drop of ~1.5" will be stiff enough to make contact less likely.
The rear suspension will accept kits from both manufacturers without any problems whatsoever. Check my setup page on hondaprelude.com to see what I have.
Want help, just e-mail me your alignment printout data and I'll try to point you the right way. OR, contact eithe Ingalls or Specialty for their opinions. For those reading this-there is a supplier for the front on SH model Ludes--www.northstarmfg.com - give em a call.

what i stated in my post was an opinion from what some people would consider an expert, an independant expert i might add, not trying to sell anything. although i trust his opinion, i don't go around holding it as the bible, no what i mean? but i guess your the FINAL word and we all(me included) should bow down and feel lucky that you would even share the truth with us.

lazilude909 · 02-27-2002, 01:13 PM

I've tried doing a lot of research on this product but could not come to a conclusion. I have coilovers and the car is dropped at about a finger gap all around. I have heard of problems where the the top threads of the camber kit hitting the top suspension. I was inquiring whether I should get the progress or specialty product. I'm definately staying away from ingalls since there are too much negative feedbacks on it. I wanted to know which camber kit would benefit me most since the progress is only 1.25 degree of adjustment while the specialty is still under concerning problems with the top thread hitting the chassis.

Hyojiggy · 02-27-2002, 03:32 PM

dam,.... i need camber kit... it's off -1.3 AH!! DAM IT~!!!

what should i get? Ingalls? SPC? Skunk2? any suggestions?

Mutjeng · 02-27-2002, 06:47 PM

anyone with a type sh lowered 2.25 inches with camber kits? can you please share your experience? im seriously considering getting new springs because my car is too low.

Blue___Lude · 02-27-2002, 07:07 PM

Yeah I need one too

You can always ghetto rig it and bend the arms...which is a big

so I don't even know why I mentioned it

C-Redrum · 02-27-2002, 08:36 PM

ill get a camber kit whenever i get my 200$ a piece tires.

jc836 · 02-28-2002, 08:06 AM

I am not holier than anyone else here. I do have enough years of experience to say what I have learned.
I will suggest that you seriously consider the Specialty Products 67135 kit if you need a range of +/-1.5 degrees of correction. This is the update to the 67130 which indeed can make contact with the shock tower as I mentioned before. The new part is much shorter and should not contact the tower according to the engineers at Specialty who actually tested them.
Allow me to repeat the reason the problem exists on 5th gen Preludes-real simple Honda redesigned the front suspension. In doing so they eliminated the use of the inboard camber adjusters that we can use in the rear and that are used on 4th gens (front and rear). The clearances for the upper control arm on a 5th gen are very tight relative to the tower. This is true for Base and SH. Ingalls solution was to use a button head bolt to retain the sliding ball joint on several of their kits. Specialty went with the stud only for typical drops.
I might also note that there are others who offer camber correction kits. Take a close look and see that they are remarkably similar to the ones from Specialty and Ingalls-who both build in house.

The original question was would using a kit cause harm to the car. This depends on the specific amount of drop and the kit you select. The stud length and the way the slide is designed will determine how close it comes to the tower. Remember you are changing where the control arm sits at rest by putting this part on. It will be closer to the tower. When the springs compress it gets really close and can make contact under extreme compression-without the bumpstops ever being a factor as well.
I spent a lot of time with Specialty resolving my concerns. The car is fine and the parts work as advertised.
For those that might continue to wonder why I have both brands on the car-it is due to the fact that you MUST select the correct kit for each corner. Specialty did not have what I needed for the rear, but Ingalls did. The same turned out to be the case for the front-so Specialty got the nod.
Happy Luding

anubyss · 02-28-2002, 08:27 AM

I've had Progressive on the front and Ingalls on the rear for some time on my 97 Prelude with no tire wear whatsoever. Just make sure you lube the hell out of them before you install it.

lazilude909 · 02-28-2002, 11:51 AM

anubyss, how low is your car? Is your fender right on the tire? Because I'm still thinking about getting progress

anubyss · 02-28-2002, 11:52 AM

I am using HR sports and have 1.5 to 2 finger gaps. They are suppose to be 1.4" drop but I think it's a bit more. I am using 215/40/17.

lazilude909 · 02-28-2002, 11:54 AM

I'm about 1/2 finger gap, and I'm worried that the progress will either hit the top chassis or not give me enough correction to straightened my wheels

coil222 · 02-28-2002, 12:04 PM

I've had an alignment done recently, I just need a rear Camber kit.

burban33 · 02-28-2002, 03:06 PM

I have neuspeed race springs and from what I understand the camber is about perfect for autocrossing. I am willing to deal with maybe a little extra tire wear for traction.

jc836, obviously you are very knowledgeable on this subject but you did come off as being like this subject was beneath you and we should be honored that you went through the time to type this up. I am NOT saying that is how you meant it but you did come off a little that way.
(don't take that the wrong way)

on a side note, what suggestions do you have as far as autocrossing goes on camber and all around alignment?

jc836 · 02-28-2002, 07:37 PM

burban33-Thank you truly for your comment. I will try to be softer in the future.
I have found that stock Camber, Caster and toe-in works well on my ride generally. I do not disagree about being more negative for track and autocross use, mainly if the car is being used for that purpose and not daily driving. Specific settings are an area where there is a lot of individual thinking. Might I suggest that one would do well to talk to members of the local autocross family that drive Preludes to learn their experiences. It is also important to factor wheel and tire combinations into your settings.
My experience using stock size tires and rims that are 16x7 +42 is that 2 degrees negative in the front was not comfortable for me (thus camber kits). The rear end can go that high, but again I was not real happy with that. The car seemed a bit more twitchy to me.
I found that after lowering the car that the front Caster went to +3.8 degrees without shims and it is actually easier on me than stock from the standpoint of cornering characteristics.
What I am saying is that there are some real good articles out there on this subject to help you get a basic setup that you are comfortable with Also,the best test would be to start with stock settings using improved sway bars and shocks. The road I test on is in a public park. It is well known to be a very tight course with variations in corner radius and camber angles. An autocross course will provide the same sort of data and basis as well. I hope that I have pointed you in the right direction.
Articles were published in several magazines including: SCC, SS, SCCA's Sports Car, GRM and Mike Ancas's tome on Honda prep.

burban33 · 02-28-2002, 07:51 PM

thanx, I am trying to get my engine set up first, then my next thing is konis and then hopefully neuspeed swaybars.

Do you know anything about the tanabe underbraces? I don't know if they even make them for a prelude I was just lookin at their site and saw them.

jc836 · 02-28-2002, 08:00 PM

My advice as to any lower tie bar is don't bother. There is more than enough meat to handle most anything an autocross prepared Prelude will need to deal with. No, I am not familiar with the Tanabe product.
As to sway bars-my preference, tho more expensive, is the Neuspeed rear bar. It clears everything on my car parfectly and has a pair of really heavy and well made mounting brackets. The suspension Techniques bars come in pairs and are very well made-but I believe they are intended to be installed as a set.
Good luck with your project.

burban33 · 02-28-2002, 08:12 PM

I am definitly going with the Neuspeed bars. I feel my Lude deserves only the best so I will wait a little longer for the right product. I eventually want to go all out with rollcage and stuff but that will be awhile because I need a car that will warrant a roll cage before on goes in there.

A car is never finished. There is always more to be done.