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Old 02-14-2008, 10:31 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Base vs. SH

I was reading honda-tech forums and came accross this information... seem'd really helpful... some of you might already know the difference but it might be helpful to newbies like me and those considering purchasing a prelude 5th gen.





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Quote, originally posted by honda-tech members
both the base model and the SH have about 200hp to the flywheel. Although when dyno'd and powered measured to the wheels the base model puts out a couple of more horses because the SH looses a bit more power due to the ATTS system robbing some ponies.

The SH prelude ATTS problem with high horsepower is that it shuts off in the range of 220-250 horsepower and becomes useless. The base and the SH have the same engine albeit the SH block is a little different with the oil filter being in a different location than the base prelude to accomodate ATTS.

if you want a drag car, get the base.
if you want a car for auto-xing, track, road courses...etc, get the SH.
you'll find parts easier for the base, for the SH you'll have to hunt.
if you want to go turbo with an SH, you can always disconnect the ATTS unit.
LSD not compatible with ATTS.
ATTS: Active Torque Transfer System.
It basically sends more power to the outside wheel when cornering making it spin 15% faster than the inside wheel.

both base and SH models are identical when it comes to the engines power at the flywheel. The SH has some accessories that the base model does not have such as a leather shift knob, spoiler, different rims, and some others
front suspension is different on the SH (biggest thing people dont realize). the geometry is different (specially designed to reduce torque steer) and the exhaust routing is slightly different to accomodate the ATTS.
The SH has a different block, it's a fact. That's why the SH and Base trannies is not a bolt on swap. Internally they are the same, but the block design on the outside is differnt. Intermediate shaft and tranny mounting, oil filter and a bunch of other stuff.
There is a thread on PO.com that details how to do a SH tranny swap to a base, it's not easy and involves fabrication.

The swap to a base tranny is NOT DIFFICULT. Trust me, I've done it...they are my pictures on preludeonline. The _only_ difference is the SH block has mounting points for the ATTS unit instead of an intermediate shaft. The modification to bolt an intermediate shaft up only takes a little bit of work to the bearing carrier of the shaft as well as the fabrication of an adapter plate (which is simply a drilled piece of 1/4" plate). You can retain your SH axles and nothing else changes...you only need a base tranny and intermediate shaft. My pics are here:
http://ian.clendaniel.net/gallery/noatts
Yeah, the front suspension difference shouldn't be a deterrant - it's really not a big deal. Just replace the springs & shocks together.
There is a small difference in the exhaust manifold - the SH collector ends a few inches farther downstream than the base.
The oil filter is in a different location on the block, but all that means is if you get a JRSC kit, it needs to be relocated.
All the other issues all revolve around the ATTS system. Like has been mentioned already, in high powered applications (turbo, supercharger, or extreme n/a), it will have trouble handling the power. If you just want nitrous, you might be alright since you're not spraying all the time. And you're not likely to spray around too many corners where the ATTS would actually be operating.
You also won't be able to install a limited slip differential at the same time as the ATTS - if you decide you want one, a tranny swap & mild custom fabbing will be in order. And if you decide to go to a stand-alone management system like Hondata or AEM, you'll lose the ATTS functions.
And then there's those few extra pounds up front. **shrug**
All of that said, there are definitely advantages to the SH model - little things like the courtesy lights on the doors, leather wrapped shift knob, the spoiler & brakelight-less rear deck, stuff like that is nice. And of course, within it's boundaries, the ATTS works very well at getting rid of understeer. It's extremely fun on highway on-ramps . . .
-SH does not have more power. auto preludes (5G) all have 190hp, Manuals have 195hp (1997, 1998) and 200hp (1999-2001). SH come ONLY in manual
-the difference in hp was never quite accounted for, some say the 97-98 were underrated, some say it was just ecu tuning, either way it's not a big difference
-SH and base lude differ mainly because the SH has ATTS, which essentially makes the front wheels turn like a tank when you turn hard (more torque to the outside wheel)
-other than that, the suspension differs in that the upper and lower control arm designs were changed to reduce torque steer. it is slightly stiffer too.
There are actually quite a few differences between the base and the Type SH suspension, The springs are not the same. The type SH springs are a little taller. The struts are different as well, the base where the spring is perched sits lower on the Type SH, hence the taller spring. It results in a little firmer spring rate than the base. Lets not forget to mention the front knuckles are different, the raius rods, the front trailing arms, and the roll bars are a couple of millimeters thicker than the base front and rear. In the rear the springs and struts are different on the SH, it has the same condition as the front where the perch that the spring sits on is slightly lower than the base model, and the spring is slightly taller than the base model, It is not as big of a difference between the SH and Base rears as the fronts are though, the rear trailing arms are a little thicker as well but not much. The only problems with aftermarket struts would be modifying the dust gaurds on the struts with stock springs, however if you go aftermarket springs and struts that are replaced in tandem you will not run into any issues..

Here is a brief synapse of what ATTS is and what it does. under straight line acceleration the system operates like an open diff meaning that only one wheel will spin on a slick surface (eg.. like ice), also at the track it only spin one tire just like an open diff. There for ATTS is not an lsd. ATTS is located on the left axle, it is essentailly a smaller tranmission, it hydraulically activates gears in the unit to route the power.When you are traveling at speed and you corner there are senors measuring the cornering force, speed, and throttle input and can send as much as 80% torque to the outside wheel when cornering. There is a standalone unit that controls the ATTS unit itself, it is also connected to the ECU. So if there is any imminent danger to the ATTS it will tell the ECU to cut power.
Honda redesigned its sport coupe for 1997. Again front-wheel drive with a 4-cylinder engine, Prelude rode a 1.4-inch longer wheelbase than before, and measured 3.2 inches longer overall. Curb weight rose by 145 pounds. Interior dimensions changed only slightly, but trunk space expanded by nearly one cubic foot. Basic 2-door notchback styling continued from the 1992-96 generation, but traditional analog gauges replaced vacuum-fluorescent instruments. Only base and SH editions went on sale, each equipped with a 2.2-liter 4-cylinder that employed Honda's variable-valve-timing technology. Running on premium fuel, the engine developed 195 horsepower with 5-speed manual shift, but only 190 horses when equipped with an automatic transmission. Offered only on base Preludes, the automatic transmission gained a new manual-shift feature, called Sequential SportShift. The gear selector lever could be left in Drive for regular automatic shifting, or tipped forward or backward to permit manual gear selection.The SH model went on sale first, equipped with a new Honda-developed system designed to combat the tendency of front-drive cars to plow, or understeer, when accelerating through a turn. Called the Active Torque Transfer System, it automatically distributed more of the engine's power to outside front wheels when accelerating in a turn. That forced the outside front wheel to rotate up to 15 percent faster than the inside front wheel. The system could direct up to 80 percent of engine torque to a single wheel. Dual airbags and four-wheel disc brakes were standard on both models, incorporating antilocking. Each model rode 16-inch tires.
Year-to-Year Changes
1998: New paint colors were the only change for 1998.
1999: More new colors became available, but only one interior hue: black. The Prelude's engine gained 5 horsepower, and did not require a tune-up until 100,00 miles. Remote locking now was a standard feature. 2000: Preludes entered the 2000 model year without change. 2001: Standard floormats, rear child-seat tethers, an emergency trunk release were the main changes for 2001. Prelude would not continue for 2002.
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Old 02-14-2008, 10:50 AM   #2 (permalink)
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There's a few things in here that aren't quite correct, but other than that it gives you th main points well
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Old 02-14-2008, 07:05 PM   #3 (permalink)
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that was pretty helpfull for me i was wonder what the difference was, it would probly be good to know before i buy one too. thanks for posting that.
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by boymeetsfence View Post
There's a few things in here that aren't quite correct, but other than that it gives you th main points well
can you tell us a few please?
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Old 04-28-2008, 12:48 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I just now saw this and re-read the whole thing... the only real thing I saw that is wrong was:

In the rear the springs and struts are different on the SH, it has the same condition as the front where the perch that the spring sits on is slightly lower than the base model, and the spring is slightly taller than the base model, It is not as big of a difference between the SH and Base rears as the fronts are though

This isn't correct, the rear struts and springs are the same on both models, only the fronts differ. The SH springs are 20mm "taller" and the perch on the struts are further down towards the fork. That's all I could really find wrong
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Old 04-28-2008, 11:49 AM   #6 (permalink)
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hp is the same across all models, auto or stick
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Old 04-28-2008, 12:13 PM   #7 (permalink)
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That's untrue...
The autos in the 5th gens only have 190 from the factory
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Old 04-28-2008, 04:58 PM   #8 (permalink)
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are you sure? the cams are the same, the injectors are the same and so is the compression ratio, etc. if that is true, why only 5hp? how did they pull 5hp from the output? the only real way would be to tune 5hp out of the maps, but that hardly seems worth it.
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:14 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I can't tell you why they did it, but if you look at factory honda specs, auto = 190hp
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Old 04-29-2008, 11:33 AM   #10 (permalink)
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uhh its called "automatic TORQUE transfer system," not automatic HORSEPOWER transfer system"

front sway bar is smaller on SH models. that helps with understeer.

ATTS not only helps with understeering, but compensates for oversteer aswell.
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Old 04-30-2008, 12:17 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Who said anything about auto HP transfer?
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Old 07-22-2008, 06:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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By the way you are correct in the fact that the 5 spd has 5 hp more than the auto. But I actually work for a Honda dealership and one of the technicians told me that actually the 2001 model has 5 horsepower more across the board. Meaning that rather than 190 auto and 195 for manual it has 195 for auto and 200 hp for the manual. It doesnt make much sense to me either but according to the techno guy its true.
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Old 07-22-2008, 06:16 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boymeetsfence View Post
I just now saw this and re-read the whole thing... the only real thing I saw that is wrong was:

In the rear the springs and struts are different on the SH, it has the same condition as the front where the perch that the spring sits on is slightly lower than the base model, and the spring is slightly taller than the base model, It is not as big of a difference between the SH and Base rears as the fronts are though

This isn't correct, the rear struts and springs are the same on both models, only the fronts differ. The SH springs are 20mm "taller" and the perch on the struts are further down towards the fork. That's all I could really find wrong
Rear spring rate in the SH is slightly higher, and the damper valving is different to account for that. Check the part numbers for the two models, the rear springs and shocks are not the same.
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Old 07-22-2008, 07:03 PM   #14 (permalink)
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97 + 98 where rated at 190hp auto and 195hp for the manual and 99+ were rated at 195 auto and 200hp for the manual. There's never been a recognized difference between the 97-98 models and 99+ models. Pretty much everyone feels that the 5 hp came via Honda marketing.

BTW isnt this stuff in one of the FAQ's? I'd be shocked if it wasnt.
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Old 07-22-2008, 07:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Rear spring rate in the SH is slightly higher, and the damper valving is different to account for that. Check the part numbers for the two models, the rear springs and shocks are not the same.
Hmm good to know! I checked and they are different... Also good to know: the rear right and left springs on the base are different but the SH are both the same... I wonder why?
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
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all i know is i had a base from 99'-08' and i thought it was great. even with a modified suspension it does not come close to my 00' SH stock.
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Old 07-22-2008, 09:13 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Gotta love the handling of the SH!!!
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:18 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I too have noticed the difference between the Base and SH. Setting aside ATTS (which is fantastic in itself), the SH front suspendo (which is very different from other Honda's, Base included) geometry really improves the steering imo.
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Old 07-20-2009, 12:24 AM   #19 (permalink)
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this is a quite useful thread.
Free bump
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Old 07-20-2009, 02:37 PM   #20 (permalink)
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i have a 97 that came with the emergency trunk release; i was under the impression all preludes had them for the entire 5th gen?
like you can open it if you were inside the trunk?
Mine has that.. I think they all do
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