i am trying to boost my h22 and i want the boost to come in fast. i mean i want the turbo to spool quick. let say i run 8 psi. i would like to be at 8 psi around 2800 - 3000 rpm. what size turbo would be good for this. also i wuz told not to get a turbo that is too small. something of because when vtec comes in the higher airflow the engine is getting it might over speed the turbo and blow it. So my mechanic recommended a Garret TO4E turbocharger. Is this a good size for the h22a. I originally wanted the t3/t4 hybrid turbo, buty he said don't mess with the t3 because the vtec might overspeed it. so if anyone knows anything about this can you please help me out.
i've seen a lot of h22's runing the t3/t4 turbo with no problems, its a pretty big turbo.
I dunno which turbo would help you spool up quicker, the only thing i can think of is a smaller turbo.
I'm running a stock eclipse turbo in my lude and it spools up at around 2500- 3000 rpm. the only problem with mine is that i get a lot of power on the low end and the turbo just maxes out in high speeds of like 100 and over. which isn't really a problem cause i rarely pass 100. (don't wanna go to jail)
Anyways i think the t3/t4 would hold up fine. it seems to be popular with the h22a guys.
How much boost do you plan on running? what's your redline?
You don't want the turbo to kickin at 2800, tha's way to early. If that happens the turbo will have to have small specs and it will reach peak power sooner. But at higher RPMs a smaller turbo wont seem to have as much "kick" to it.
A T3/T4 hybrid is common so tell your mechanic not to worry unless you get a small turbine A/R you'll be fine.
a good size for between 8-14 PSI would be a T04E 50-60 trim compressor, and a T3 .63 A/R stage 3. You should look at page 1 and 2 of the FI forum there are several topics about this subject.
Originally posted by greengangsta i plan on boosting 9 psi daily and 12psi on the track. my redline is 9 grand.
What exactly have you done to your engine to get a 9000 RPM redline? what RPM is your fuel cutoff at? Is it an H22A1 or an H22A4? what other internal work have you done?
A turbo spooling up to 8 PSI at 2800 and staying at 9 PSI till 9000 RPM's seems pretty far fetched to me. What do you plan on using the car for? Autocross, Drag racing, Top End racing?
Last edited by BlueShadow : 12-20-2001 at 10:48 AM.
How much boost do you plan on running? what's your redline?
You don't want the turbo to kickin at 2800, tha's way to early. If that happens the turbo will have to have small specs and it will reach peak power sooner. But at higher RPMs a smaller turbo wont seem to have as much "kick" to it.
A T3/T4 hybrid is common so tell your mechanic not to worry unless you get a small turbine A/R you'll be fine.
a good size for between 8-14 PSI would be a T04E 50-60 trim compressor, and a T3 .63 A/R stage 3. You should look at page 1 and 2 of the FI forum there are several topics about this subject.
What do you think of the DRAG T04B/T3 turbo for the H22A1? Its specs are:
T04B/T3
Super V Compressor
.63 A/R Stage 3
What boost range is this turbo suited? Will it over spin when the vtec activates.
In my opinion you should build the turbo around the car NOT the car around the turbo. Which is why I always ask people what their goals are.
-what is your engine size/type (VTEC or NON-VTEC)?
-what is your engines redline?
-what boost pressure(s) do you want to run?
Once you have those three figured out, you start selecting a turbo based on that. However.... If someone gave you that turbo thats a different story.
Quote:
Originally posted by Islander9407 Will it over spin when the vtec activates.
I dont think turbos will "overspin" when VTEC engages, instead they will just flow more air. Cause now the VTEC cams are cramming more air in the engine.
Originally posted by Islander9407
T04B/T3
Super V Compressor
.63 A/R Stage 3
I just did some guesstimating, but based on the A/R full boost should be around 4000 it should be good to about 7400 RPM's but the compressor starts to heat up the air at that point.
It looks like it'll be good for about 9-11 PSI though.
Originally posted by greengangsta BlueShadow, what do u mean staying at 9 psi until 9 grand seems far fetch? can u please explain. i am new to this turbo stuff.
If a turbo was to reach full boost at 2800 RPM it will probably stop making power by about 5000 RPM. You would have to go with a small turbo for that. There is a trade off between track performance and streetability. a car that reaches full boost by 2800 will be perfect for daily driving, but it will suck for Drag racing. Even if you were to take the car above 4000 RPM's on the street, the car will start out fast but will run out of "steam" by 4000-5000 RPMs.
There are 2 parts to a turbo, the compressor and the turbine. In order for the car to reach full boost by 2800 RPM's you would have to go with a small turbine A/R.
A/R is how Turbines are measured:
small A/R = full boost reached early, less lag
big A/R = full boost reached later, more lag
The reason a smaller A/R reaches full boost earlier is cause it spins faster.
The only downside of going with a Turbine A/R small enough to hit full boost by 2800, is that at higher RPM's the Turbine will be subject to a lot of exhaust backpressure. and the Compressor will make the air a lot hotter because its being spun to fast by the small Turbine, and hotter air = less power maybe even lead to detonation.
The good thing about a bigger Turbine A/R is even though you wont reach full boost till about 4000-4500 RPM's you will still be making power by 7000-7500 RPM's
Originally posted by greengangsta I originally wanted the t3/t4 hybrid turbo, buty he said don't mess with the t3
I think what your mechanic meant was dont mess with the straight T3/T3 turbos, T3 compressor and T3 Turbine.
The T4/T3 (T4 compressor T3 turbine) is pretty common. this is probably the one you'll be happiest with. with a properly sized turbo you can reach full boost by 4500-5000 and stay strong till 7400 RPM's.
I would check on your redline though, 9000 doesnt sound right even for a JDM H22 it should be closer to 7400-7500. I would get some more info about your P13 chip.
In my opinion you should build the turbo around the car NOT the car around the turbo. Which is why I always ask people what their goals are.
-what is your engine size/type (VTEC or NON-VTEC)?
-what is your engines redline?
-what boost pressure(s) do you want to run?
Honestly I don't know if it is a V1 or V2. That's what Ben from Import Parts told me.
what is your engine size/type (VTEC or NON-VTEC) = 2157cc Vtec H22A1
what is your engines redline = 8000rpm (Using Hondata)
what boost pressure(s) do you want to run? = 12-16psi(93 octane)
My car is a street vehicle with weekend drag and road racing. My engine was rebuilt to JG Pro Series specs(block and head)9.0:1cr.
With all this information could you recommend a good turbo upgrade?
well i wuz told that is where my redline is at.
i have an accord with a jdm h22 and on the accord tach, i take da needle all the way to 8 grand and it can sit there for a sec. b4 i shift. so i assumed it wuz 9 grand. unless the accord rpm gauge is different from the prelude. i dunno.
what would be better a single to4e or a t3/to4e hybrid turbo. for my redline, my h22 vtec, my 9 psi daily and 12 psi track. want very little turbo lag and power up top?
that is an insane redline on an h22 with stock valvetrain and internals. are you sure?
Quote:
Originally posted by greengangsta well i wuz told that is where my redline is at.
i have an accord with a jdm h22 and on the accord tach, i take da needle all the way to 8 grand and it can sit there for a sec. b4 i shift. so i assumed it wuz 9 grand. unless the accord rpm gauge is different from the prelude. i dunno.
what would be better a single to4e or a t3/to4e hybrid turbo. for my redline, my h22 vtec, my 9 psi daily and 12 psi track. want very little turbo lag and power up top?
and do compressors have a/r ?
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well be careful. consensus is that the internals will NOT take 9000 RPM. stay at 8000 or less; but the stock tach may not mean much. if you have a vafc or datalogger it will tell you the real scoop.
on an h22 prelude the tach is about 600RPM HIGH at the top, so if it says 8000 it means 7400. fuel cutoff is at 7600.
Quote:
Originally posted by greengangsta im not too sure. i take it to 8 grand on the stock accord rpm gauge
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My car is a street vehicle with weekend drag and road racing. My engine was rebuilt to JG Pro Series specs(block and head)9.0:1cr.
With all this information could you recommend a good turbo upgrade?
Thanks
hmm... how about:
T04E 54 trim Compressor, and a T3 stage 3 .62 or .82 A/R Turbine? Does anyone else agree/disagree?
It should work well for both 12 and 16 PSI, you may want to go with a bigger A/R like .62 or .82. you want full boost to hit by about 5200-5500 RPM, so I would ask around and find out how laggy the .62's are and the .82's.
EDIT: I looked at the surge characteristics of both the V1/V2 and the T04E 54 and you have a bigger margin with the T04E 54
Last edited by BlueShadow : 12-21-2001 at 04:08 AM.
T04E 54 trim Compressor, and a T3 stage 3 .62 or .82 A/R Turbine? Does anyone else agree/disagree?
It should work well for both 12 and 16 PSI, you may want to go with a bigger A/R like .62 or .82. you want full boost to hit by about 5200-5500 RPM, so I would ask around and find out how laggy the .62's are and the .82's.
EDIT: I looked at the surge characteristics of both the V1/V2 and the T04E 54 and you have a bigger margin with the T04E 54
What's the difference between the .63 A/R Exh. housing and the .62 A/R Exh. housing? What about the TO4E 57 trim compressor?
What's the difference between the .63 A/R Exh. housing and the .62 A/R Exh. housing?
I think you meant .63 and .82 A/R, I'm talking about the turbine fans.
A smaller A/R (.63) will have less lag and will hit full boost sooner but power *could* start to taper off at upper RPMs.
A bigger A/R (.82) will have just a little more lag and it will hit full boost a little later but it will still continue to *make power* in the upper RPMs, but if its too big you may not even reach full boost
I haven't talked to anyone that has run with a .82 A/R Turbine yet so I would try to find one if I was you.
Quote:
Originally posted by Islander9407 What about the TO4E 57 trim compressor?
Because with the goals that you had in mind, the compressor would work the best is the T04E 54. You *can* use the T04E 57 BUT the air temperature for the 57 will be a lot hotter than the 54. Whenever you compress air you raise the air temperature by a certain amount. The efficiency % of a compressor is what determines how much the air is heated up.
a 54 trim at 8000 RPM and 16 PSI = 74% efficiency
a 57 trim at 8000 RPM and 16 PSI = 65% efficiency
the higher the compressor efficiency % the less the air is heated up. So yes you can use the 57 as well but I dont think you will make as much power in the upper RPMS if you stay at 12/16 PSI.
Last edited by BlueShadow : 12-21-2001 at 07:18 AM.
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