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Old 08-12-2001, 04:50 PM   #1 (permalink)
mugenxlude
 
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Thermostat?????

ok i will purchase a thermostat tomorrow, i dont know which one to get since everyone told me spoon and mugen is the same thing. but ive look up the spec's on both and it states; spoon opens up at 65 C and fully operates at 70 C, and the mugen opens up at 68 C. but what i dont get is if the spoon fully operates at 70 C, what temp does the mugen fully operates at or does it. i am confused, does the mugen fully operates at 68 C or not? can someone please help me with this one.


thanks

nomi
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Old 08-12-2001, 08:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
mugenxlude
 
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Old 08-12-2001, 08:54 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I have a spoon thermostat and thermoswitch sitting in my room right now waiting to be installed. If you get a thermostat you should really get a thermoswitch as well for it to beneficial.
Here, read this. It's from a while back before i purchased anything:


The Helm procedure is "correct," but not necessary in my opinion. Here's what I do with good results:

1) slide the a/c temp lever to full hot.
2) run the car until it reaches normal operating temp.
3) shut the car down, wait for at least 20 minutes.
4) drain the radiator from it's drain.
5) pour water into the rad until you get clear water out the drain.
6) plug the rad back up, then fill with water. Be sure to fill it all the way... the level will settle over a minute or so. Be sure it's topped off. Cap the rad.
7) Repeat steps 2-6, with the temp lever on hot. It's faster to drive it, but a PITA since you usually need the car jacked up to get a drain pan under it.

After doing this you should have all the old coolant out. It's not really necessary to do it twice if you flush with OEM coolant regularly. I do it twice or more if the car hasn't been flushed in a while or I'm changing coolant brands.

Change the thermostat every 100k miles. You should do it when you do the water pump and timing belt as PM. It's too cheap a part to have fail and cost you your engine.

Our radiator is fine, it has plenty of capacity. I've never known a non-SS Prelude to overheat. I speculate the SS Prelude has a bunch of coils dedicated to the tranny; I hypothesize that a seperate tranny cooler would solve a lot of SS failure and overheating problems on the track. I think a Fluidyne is a waste of money if you do your cooling system properly (see below).

[DISSERTATION]
Changing the t-stat to a lower temp version is a good idea IF and ONLY IF you change out the fan switch as well. There are a few places where the t-stat only might be good, like for a track-only car. But even then, periods of idling or low-speed driving aren't good. Because...

If you change out the t-stat for a lower temp version it opens up at a lower temp (duh). Cars for the most part used to have low temp thermostats (140 or 160 degrees F) to keep them running cool on inefficient cooling systems. Keep in mind that cars used to all have mechanical fans and thermoclutches which are notorious for going out. They also regulated poorly, so a low temp thermostat was the only way to keep them running. With the advent of the "greenies" and pollution awareness (EPA Nazis) we realize now how evil we were, power is bad, waste is bad, and efficient engines are good. Hot engines complete combustion better. Enter the 180 degree thermostat. A good electric fan with a thermal switch can regulate temperature pretty well, far better than mechanical fans. This was an easy step since most cars were now FWD and couldn't use a mechanical fan anyhow. So now you have a hot t-stat and fan switch at about the same temp.

Now... you want to run your car colder. Some say "power gain" and some say "cooling capacity." The fact is that many ECUs retard timing and add fuel based on intake air temp and engine temp. The S2k is notorious for this, one "feature" the Mugen ECU removes (these safety precautions). Run cooler, get more power.

But cooling is good, too. If you run your car cooler you've got more capacity; as ambient temp rises you should have the same differential (X degrees) between the coolant temp and ambient temp. This should give you more headroom in staying away from the boiling point in hot conditions and hard use.

This brings me back to my point about the fan switch. Let's say you've switched out your t-stat for a colder model. You're running colder, right? Yes, but not near as much as you would be with the fan switch. Your radiator is only effective when there is air moving past it. Since the fan switch is still turning on at the same temp (it's driven off of coolant temp) the fan won't turn on until the coolant gets to the same temp it did before. What does this mean? It means your fan will rarely turn on. But that's good, right? No, not really. You're keeping a lower mean temp (marginally), but at the expense of a wider temp. variation.

So?

So now you're putting your car through more thermal cycles. Not only is this thermal cyclng bad for things like seals and gaskets and such, it's also bad for the radiator.

Get the t-stat and the fan switch and you'll regulate the temp perfectly, just like stock.

Where can you get the switch? So far, nowhere in the states that I've seen. Spoon is the only one I've seen so far that makes it. I haven't comfirmed it, but it should be the same across all models. I know for a fact it's the same between the Civic/Integra and the S2k (all years).

[/DISSERTATION]




Marcucci explained why you should get a thermoswitch as well, so i did
As far as the mugen temp rating, i have no idea. Sorry...

gills

Last edited by gills : 08-12-2001 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 08-12-2001, 09:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
mugenxlude
 
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does spoon make a thermoswitch for a h22a4 ??? because i know they make a thermostat for it. can someone please let me know....


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Old 08-12-2001, 09:37 PM   #5 (permalink)
mugenxlude
 
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???
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Old 08-12-2001, 09:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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yes they do. I have one sitting in my room right now along with the thermostat. Go to www.inlinefour.com and give them a call.
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Old 08-12-2001, 10:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
mugenxlude
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by gills
yes they do. I have one sitting in my room right now along with the thermostat. Go to www.inlinefour.com and give them a call.
thanks alot gills i really appriciate it.
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Old 08-12-2001, 10:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
mugenxlude
 
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dude i just checked it out but i cant see where it say's they make a thermoswitch for a h22a4.
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Old 08-12-2001, 10:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
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They don't have it listed on their site. You have to call them and ask them about it for some reason.
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Old 08-12-2001, 10:29 PM   #10 (permalink)
mugenxlude
 
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hahah aite thanks.
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Old 08-13-2001, 03:10 AM   #11 (permalink)
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aight, i got a problem, my temp guage in my car goes up..alot, making it seem like im overheating, the needle will go back to normal, when i drive, basically, the needle rises when im at a stop, doesnt seem to be signs of a thrashed radiator, my fans still work, some say it may be my thermostat, i have no idea how ti change it, what to do?? TIA
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Old 08-13-2001, 07:29 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by sagaprelude
aight, i got a problem, my temp guage in my car goes up..alot, making it seem like im overheating, the needle will go back to normal, when i drive, basically, the needle rises when im at a stop, doesnt seem to be signs of a thrashed radiator, my fans still work, some say it may be my thermostat, i have no idea how ti change it, what to do?? TIA
Sounds like you are either low on coolant or the t-stat is stuck. Regardless, if you are at 60k miles or more, have the coolant flushed and t-stat & cap replaced with Honda units. If you're less than that, be sure you're full (you'll have to check the overflow tank for the coolant). If you were low, there's a reason; have the system checked for leaks. If you're not low, it's got to be the t-stat. Have it replaced and refill the coolant with Honda coolant (provided it hasn't been changed).
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Old 08-13-2001, 03:33 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Nice explanation Gills. I agree, though I could not have explained it that well... . The 5G Prelude uses the EK9 Spoon Thermoswitch, same switch as the 1996-2000 Civic uses. I don't know if thats across the board for generations(1-4), but it would make sense that it is.
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Old 08-13-2001, 05:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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thanx alot, would the warranty still cover that by any chance??
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Old 08-13-2001, 06:45 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dorokusai
Nice explanation Gills. I agree, though I could not have explained it that well...
ha! I wish that was me That was actually Marcucci's response from a thread a while back. Very good info indeed.


The 5G Prelude uses the EK9 Spoon Thermoswitch, same switch as the 1996-2000 Civic uses. I don't know if thats across the board for generations(1-4), but it would make sense that it is.
yes, i believe this is true as well. When i recieved the thermoswitch from inlinefour.com i looked at the part # and it said EK9 instead of BB-. I got pissed because i thought they sent me the wrong part but it turns out that it's the same for most hondas according to them.
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Old 08-14-2001, 11:36 AM   #16 (permalink)
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mugenxlude --

i think your signature is really really long. can you shorten it?
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Old 08-14-2001, 11:38 AM   #17 (permalink)
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what's a thermostat?
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Old 08-14-2001, 01:08 PM   #18 (permalink)
mugenxlude
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pure Lude
mugenxlude --

i think your signature is really really long. can you shorten it?
i took all my sig's off on this thread.
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