I'm having an arguement with a friend...who own the latest gen of Toyota Celica.
He keep saying VVTL-i is more powerful than Vtec, and the upcoming Vtec-I is the same as VVTL-i. What exactly is VVTL-i??
I don't know about more powerful but it is different. VVTL-i can change the cam timing, something that VTEC cannot. Now the New VTEC-i motors are supposed to be able to change cam timing and a few other things (something to do with continuously variable intake runners if I remember correctly). It's been a long time since I read anything about VTEC-i though so I could be wrong.
The power is up to the manufacturer!
The new Celica has 190 bhp, so I don't see how he can say it is more poweful!
It is more modern technology though, and constantly changes the valve timing, not just once like ours do!
I think it is better, but not more powerful as such!
------------------ UK LUDER! HONDA-R UK Member
5th GEN 2.2 VTI 4WS Manual
i got to test drive a GTS and it wasn't as strong as my VTEC. but the diff between VTEC and VVTLI. is VVTLI is variable valve timing AND LIFT where VTEC is just cam timing?? or is it? i'm having a brain fart right now. another thing i didn't like about the GTS's VVTLI is the fact that it kept dropping out of it at each shift.
how would you REALLY measure which one is more powerful? By it's cc's?
The word "power" is so broad that it's just plain stupid to even argue about it. If you really want to show him which is more powerful then race him and let him have a look at your tailights.
For Toyota to have such a fast looking car, they could have made it a little quicker. Atleast as fast as a Prelude or something. That car competes more with Civic Si's.
Honda's VTEC system does something no one else could (notice I say "could) do- it varies timing, lift, and duration. Mind you, this is fixed, based on the cam profile. Our cams have 3 lobes per cylinder (per cam), 2 "low" lobes and 1 VTEC lobe. This lobe's profile is radically different from the others with different timing, lift and duration. In that sense ours is variable, but not continuously variable as in newer systems.
VTEC is "old" but it's still "modern" by a lot of standards, say a 350 Chevy head or a 302/351 Ford head. Honda's been working on this technology for 15 years now, it's good to see them coming up with something a little more advanced.
hmm this is strange the reason i was only saying VTEC is for cam timing above is cause the TOYOTA dealer said so and that was why i was all confused. but i just checked it and
HONDA's definition of VTEC is this
VTEC= or variable valve timing and lift electronic control, ) system changes the intake and exhaust valves' lift, timing and duration so that they more closely match the engine's changing air-fuel needs. This results in more horsepower and torque at low and high engine speeds
and TOYOTAs definition of VVTL-i
VVTL-i= or Variable Valve Timing with Lift and intelligence, optimizes engine breathing by adjusting intake valve timing as engine speed and load vary. When the engine reaches 6,000 rpm, high-lift cams take over and the power curve really spikes.
[This message has been edited by BlueShadow (edited March 22, 2001).]
The VVTL-i has 180bhp and has both cam timing change and a lift change. The GT just varies timing of the cams. They don't change lobes they have no change in the profile when it changes. I can't remember how it works but they have a piston that makes the rocks follow the cam closer when it's on. I know that the powerband (2 stroke turm) is not a broad as the VTEC engine, even though it is better. It's not quite as usefull. The VTEC-i will be even better than there system. As far as having more power. The motor the the most HP wins. It doesn't matter how it gets it. One last thing don't knock the GT-S. They have a 6 speed and come with better tires. I've seen on run 14.6 with intake and exhaust on stock tires. While my heavy a$$ car was running 15.4. If we had a 6 speed we would do better and have a better highway gear. now I'm just spiting crap out. later.
Just curious, but how does the current VTEC (I think Preludes still have the 1st generation of VTEC maybe 2nd..) match up against the new technology that BMW is putting into the new M3? I remember reading an article about it, but don't remember much about it now... Just curious.
Damn I hate Celica's. They look so damn Ugly! Who cares if they have a newer Technology. They still lose to our Honda/Acura's!! After all these years, they finally come out with a response to our Sports Coupes, and they STILL can't outperform our Cars... Sad... very sad...
------------------
15.12 @ 93.41
on STOCK street tires!
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by GS-Racer: Damn I hate Celica's. They look so damn Ugly! Who cares if they have a newer Technology. They still lose to our Honda/Acura's!! After all these years, they finally come out with a response to our Sports Coupes, and they STILL can't outperform our Cars... Sad... very sad...
</font>
hey, don't hate, because we have two honda and a toyota... and anyone from japan will tell you that honda are Piece of ****s compared to Toyota...and taking our cars in for warranty service will truly prove this...
My prelude at the honda dealer:
Joedaddy: Hi, my name is Joedaddy, and my car shakes like crazy when I hit the brakes.
Bob the service guy: Ok, $40 to shave the rotors and $25 to balance the tires.
Joedaddy: *kkeeekkk* VTEC out the parking lot...
Avalon at the toyota dealer:
Joedaddy: Hi, my name is Joedaddy, and my car shakes like crazy when I hit the brakes.
Ted the service guy: Ok, give me your keys. Go grab some donuts (krispy kreme) and coffee and watch ESPN for a hour PLEASE.
1 hour later....
Ted the service guy: here are your keys and your car is ready to go.
Joedaddy: *kkkeeekkk* VVT-I out da parking lot
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by joedaddy: hey, don't hate, because we have two honda and a toyota... and anyone from japan will tell you that honda are Piece of ****s compared to Toyota...and taking our cars in for warranty service will truly prove this...
My prelude at the honda dealer:
Joedaddy: Hi, my name is Joedaddy, and my car shakes like crazy when I hit the brakes.
Bob the service guy: Ok, $40 to shave the rotors and $25 to balance the tires.
Joedaddy: *kkeeekkk* VTEC out the parking lot...
Avalon at the toyota dealer:
Joedaddy: Hi, my name is Joedaddy, and my car shakes like crazy when I hit the brakes.
Ted the service guy: Ok, give me your keys. Go grab some donuts (krispy kreme) and coffee and watch ESPN for a hour PLEASE.
1 hour later....
Ted the service guy: here are your keys and your car is ready to go.
Joedaddy: *kkkeeekkk* VVT-I out da parking lot </font>
maybe toyota feels they have to make up for their poorly designed cars by providing the best service there is
nah jus playin. i'm sure the new celica GTS is an engineering marvel. but why did they have to make it soo butt-booty ugly!!
i agree that honda dealerships and the customer service needs more work than others. Not all honda dealerships suck though....and not all toyota dealerships are great -
ok, the GTS celica is compared with the Type-R. u guys are pretty much saying you'll take a gts so easily, how come i dont hear u guys talking about beating up on type-r's? i saw a comparo on road coarse and drag this is how 4 cars came up
by the way, the sh had a slightly higher 1/4 mile than the gs-r did, but of course it killed gsr in road coarse.</font>
Ah yes, the infamous SCC test. Well let my just say that the person who drove that prelude could not drive to save his life. If I recall correctly that's the test where they pulled off a blistering 7.7 second 0-60 time for the prelude. Those guys are idiots.
damn the SCC comparo... didnt anybody see the Car and Driver comparo where the (4 year old) Prelude still beat out all comers and was the FASTEST 0-60, including the GSR, the Eclipse GT, and the VW GTI... granted, it was a base model, but at least C&D drivers know how to drive...
"Anyone from Japan will tell you that Honda is a piece of ****!"
Guess what, we ain't in Japan. Not only that but we do not have any Japanese supercars here anymore. Believe me, if this was Japan about half of us on this board would not even be driving a Honda. Thats like saying "In Italy they think Honda's are pieces of ****!". No **** sherlock, we don't have the money and access to most of Lambo's and Ferrari's.
And I think we are free to hate on whatever car we want - the Celica is fast looking car that is slow as ****. I have seen these cars run a hundred times at the track. Oh, well atleast they come with larger brakes than the Preludes. I bet that was your salesmans pitch right there.
As for the SCC tests - once again, they were bribed by Toyota to use the GTS as a project car in turn giving them high marks on all their tests. If you actually think the GTS is going to compete with a Type R then pass me some of that **** ya'll are smoking.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by vabeach_lude: Oh God, here we go.
"Anyone from Japan will tell you that Honda is a piece of ****!"
Guess what, we ain't in Japan. Not only that but we do not have any Japanese supercars here anymore. Believe me, if this was Japan about half of us on this board would not even be driving a Honda. Thats like saying "In Italy they think Honda's are pieces of ****!". No **** sherlock, we don't have the money and access to most of Lambo's and Ferrari's.
And I think we are free to hate on whatever car we want - the Celica is fast looking car that is slow as ****. I have seen these cars run a hundred times at the track. Oh, well atleast they come with larger brakes than the Preludes. I bet that was your salesmans pitch right there.
As for the SCC tests - once again, they were bribed by Toyota to use the GTS as a project car in turn giving them high marks on all their tests. If you actually think the GTS is going to compete with a Type R then pass me some of that **** ya'll are smoking.</font>
I AGREE thank you VABEACH_LUDE
and remember some of us have dealt with the GTS in person. and no magazine article can change the fact that the GTS's i've ran into performed poorly. and remember no one likes a magazine racer, ie SCC says GTS will smoke a Lude or C&D says a GTS can outhandle a Type-R
I hate to brag or put anyone down, but I too have ran across quite a few GTS at the local autoxes, and some of these things were so moded (suspension, i/h/e,......). Of course it could, and probably is in many cases the driver, but ive yet to see one of these things come within a few seconds of any other prelude present at the events.
Boys, boys, boys!
Come on, we are better than this!
Hate threads are for SHO!
The Celica is a great car! It looks modern and sharp, and it has some good features!
Those features may differ from ours, but they are still great!
I haven't found the Celica a great car to mod, and for that reason I have stayed away! (What aver happened to the GT-4?)
I tried a previous genertion Celica before I bought the Lude, and it is obvious which one won as I am not currently writing on supertoyota.com or something!
But I don't aggree with slating another Japanese car because it isn't the one we drive!
I think they have their place, and I won't knock it!
There you go, an English objective approach!
------------------ UK LUDER! HONDA-R UK Member
5th GEN 2.2 VTI 4WS Manual
[This message has been edited by Guiddy (edited March 23, 2001).]
piss on Celicas 
