hellava good response from the header, but I'd hate to rough it like that with no AC and PS except for a race only car. On a side note, lighter wheels make a difference I've found.
If I could go back...oh well. Gotta get hose numbers from something else.
that's not the response from the header. might want to look into it a little more in the NA section of this site.
Turns out he baselined at 181. then removed the PS, bought a hondata, and installed the SMSP. So that's going from a FPR tuned by reading the plugs to a hondata. if you told me the 13 hp was from the tuning alone, I wouldn't argue.
So, just kind of confirms the "more for a race car" thoughts most people seem to have.
Originally posted by Vapor that's not the response from the header. might want to look into it a little more in the NA section of this site.
Turns out he baselined at 181. then removed the PS, bought a hondata, and installed the SMSP. So that's going from a FPR tuned by reading the plugs to a hondata. if you told me the 13 hp was from the tuning alone, I wouldn't argue.
So, just kind of confirms the "more for a race car" thoughts most people seem to have.
Vapor, he baselined at 181 with no PS/AC and the SMSP installed.
With hondata tuning, he arrived at the 194 figure.
You sure that 181 was with the SMSP? Kris never really makes that clear in his NA thread.
In that case, he still went from 168 to 181 by pulling AC and PS, installing the SMSP header, and tuning the FPR.
Still not all that exciting for 8 whp. It obviously does well, but no the OMG 20HP!!! that everyone keeps running around claiming. just glad to see a few people come back down to reality.
Yea but since when has anyone made anything close to that just with i/h/e and some form of fuel management? Not alot thats for sure. Alot of people on this site are just happy with 180 whp tuned with a nice i/h/e combo and some sort of fuel management. I think the gains are more then enough to show the true worth of this header.
Hondata isn't "some form of fuel management" as it also is able to control ignition timing which is a HUGE benifit along with altering the fuel tables w/o just modifying the map signal. I really believe the Hondata alone is responsible for the jump between 181 - 194 figures as the VAFC actually doesn't pick up anything on the top end and usually looses a few hp there.
You know maybe it's just me but I was always under the impression that a header and exhuast could only add so much. Back in my wanna be muscle car days they had specific formulas for the diameter pipes for headers and exhuast and talked about how larger would cause negative effects. Their conclusion was that mufflers and header designs could affect where the power was being made but overall there's only so much tuning that could be done with them.
Personally I think that everyone is hoping for that magic part and since the wait and anticipation was so great for this header everyone wants it to make these huge #'s. Case in point the infamouse OBD-II work around from the NTPOG guys. Everyone jumped on it, did it, claimed they "felt" the difference etc.. and then Todd comes out later and talked about it being good for CEL's only for the most part.
Any good flowing I/H/E combo with either AEM or UR pulleys and a well tuned Hondata could probably equal these gains.
Originally posted by THATPRELUDEGUY You know maybe it's just me but I was always under the impression that a header and exhuast could only add so much. Back in my wanna be muscle car days they had specific formulas for the diameter pipes for headers and exhuast and talked about how larger would cause negative effects. Their conclusion was that mufflers and header designs could affect where the power was being made but overall there's only so much tuning that could be done with them.
Personally I think that everyone is hoping for that magic part and since the wait and anticipation was so great for this header everyone wants it to make these huge #'s. Case in point the infamouse OBD-II work around from the NTPOG guys. Everyone jumped on it, did it, claimed they "felt" the difference etc.. and then Todd comes out later and talked about it being good for CEL's only for the most part.
Any good flowing I/H/E combo with either AEM or UR pulleys and a well tuned Hondata could probably equal these gains.
Originally posted by THATPRELUDEGUY Any good flowing I/H/E combo with either AEM or UR pulleys and a well tuned Hondata could probably equal these gains.
exactly what I'm saying.
Quote:
Originally posted by bolivianfuego Yea but since when has anyone made anything close to that just with i/h/e and some form of fuel management? Not alot thats for sure. Alot of people on this site are just happy with 180 whp tuned with a nice i/h/e combo and some sort of fuel management. I think the gains are more then enough to show the true worth of this header.
actually, there are people making MORE. with a VAFC. and a DC header. and they still have accessories connected.
and I can say with 99% certainty that if I got 180 with I/H/E and a VAFC, I could get to, or very close to, 194 by keeping that same combo, pulling the PS and AC, dropping in a hondata and doing exhaustive tuning. I think you're missing the fact that under your circumstances (I/H/E with "some form of fuel management," in this case a FPR) Kris made 181 hp. So how does that make it worth 1000 more for the 1 hp on a street car that won't use the revs where its really going to free things up?
I doubt that with hondata on a 180 whp tuned with a VAFC you could pull a whopping 14 more hp by just messing with the ignition timing.
You know what, show me a Dyno plot of a DC sports header tuned on hondata making more then 180ish and then you guys can talk. Until then, a Non modified DC sports header with stock cat tuned will only get you at most 180whp in my book.
__________________
Last edited by bolivianfuego; 06-25-2004 at 11:19 AM.
Originally posted by bolivianfuego I doubt that with hondata on a 180 whp tuned with a VAFC you could pull a whopping 14 more hp by just messing with the ignition timing.
You know what, show me a Dyno plot of a DC sports header tuned on hondata making more then 180ish and then you guys can talk. Until then, a Non modified DC sports header with stock cat tuned will only get you at most 180whp in my book.
you're not getting it.
I/SMSP/E, no PS, No AC, tuned with a FPR only got him 181. it was the Hondata that got him to 194. compare apples to apples.
here, DR's dyno plot:
Tuned ECU ( yay Todd!), AEM Intake, DC Sports Ceramic Header and a Greddy Evo Exhaust. 196 hp. can we talk now?
If anythign i think the 194 whp made with the SMSP header, is a weak representation of what could be made on a stronger running motor. With this being said, look at coreys motor. It made 205whp on stock ecu with just a FPR and no ac and PS.
In this thread here, David claims that scott byars aka 2point6 sold his prototype#3 header to his friend who baselined at 178whp and 145lbs of tq. with a DC sports header tuned with a VAFC i believe, but then went up to 196whp and 153lbs of tq. with just his header and a 2.5inch cat. H22 SMSP Prototype #3 Header vs DC Header Dyno Info
__________________
Last edited by bolivianfuego; 06-25-2004 at 01:29 PM.
haha, I like how you have to say "Well he said blah blah blah" and "I heard this that the other" Plots? And just a header and a 2.5 inch cat and more tuning? oh, but you forgot to mention that its a JDM H22.
Don't be ignorant. I'm not saying its not a GREAT header. I think it is. I think its a fantastic piece of engineering. Having undertaken similiar endeavors at work, I can fully appreciate all the hard work that went into the design. just have some realistic expectations when not in a full race situation.
See thats what makes us different. Im willing to drive something that most consider "race only" on the street. So those numbers that corey pulled with out all his accessories would be the same way i would run my car on the street. Do you get what i mean? I still dont get how DR got that much outta a 2.0inch collected DC sports header. That **** is nuts.
__________________
Last edited by bolivianfuego; 06-25-2004 at 04:25 PM.
The AutoGuide.com network consists of the largest network of enthusiast-owned enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
AutoGuide.com provides the latest car reviews, auto show coverage, new car prices, and automotive news. The AutoGuide network operates more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share opinions as a community.
Linear Mode
