<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by IXLR8: Hey Aaron - don't take the posts personaly. No one is trying to attack you or dispute the fact that the Kit will be pretty cool.
It's just that people on this board are trying to take Honda Tuning to the next level. Trying to REALLY learn all the little technicalities that make our cars respond the way they do. And believe me, for every thing you change, there's 10 other things going on.
All Billy's really saying is understand what you're getting into if you buy this kit. That's not just directed to you - but anyone considering these types of mods.
We're all excited it's coming out and JUNB has a nice rep, but don't bank on everything they say. The guys here in the states don't always know much. I even get a different story every time I call.
Lots of us poke holes in each other's theories or ideas. No harm meant by it. So understand that and have fun learning as much as you can here.
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Exactly! Thanks!
I am going to stop *****ing about it now. See, how's that for manners? Now Aaron, if you feel the need to say something further regarding my manners, hypocrisy (don't know where you got that one from), or knowledge, please direct these comments to william.howell@home.com, and I will be glad to entertain your foolishness.
Oh, as for power, it's common knowledge (for people that have car-sense) that FI is ALWAYS cheaper hp for hp than NA. For 1/2 the price of what it would cost to do the JUN package RIGHT, you could get just as much, if not more power from a turbo or SC (installation issues aside).
JUN makes high quality stuff, don't get me wrong. The items I have seen from them are all top-notch, but you guys need to realize what you're getting into when you start running an engine at 10 tenths.
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Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
www.ntpog.org
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Aaron97SH: And to think all this time I was focused on my actions in real life....
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Only near/around you. On the board, this is all we see...
Keep in mind that while us old farts bring our biases to the table (jun, JR, etc.), there is some knowledge/experience associated with that. Amidst all the "noise" on most web boards there is some signal- the challenge is to extract the signal from the noise.
Billy-
Come on now, my foolishness??
Please read everything I have posted here and tell me about my foolishness. I'm not even pretending that I will be running this engine at 10-10ths, maybe way in the future or if I win the lotto.
Also, has anyone ever said that you're not "getting into anything" with a JRSC or turbo?? Any time you significantly increase your power you need to upgrade most systems/parts anyways, I'm not denying that.
The whole reason for this whole thread was that: "you know, it might be possible to make over 250whp without FI". This, to me, is absolutely incredible, even if it costs more than $5,000.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Aaron97SH: Billy-
Come on now, my foolishness??
Please read everything I have posted here and tell me about my foolishness. I'm not even pretending that I will be running this engine at 10-10ths, maybe way in the future or if I win the lotto.
Also, has anyone ever said that you're not "getting into anything" with a JRSC or turbo?? Any time you significantly increase your power you need to upgrade most systems/parts anyways, I'm not denying that.
The whole reason for this whole thread was that: "you know, it might be possible to make over 250whp without FI". This, to me, is absolutely incredible, even if it costs more than $5,000.</font>
Hey, man, go easy on Billy. He just got married and half his engine's on his table!!!
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Aaron97SH: Billy-
Come on now, my foolishness??
Please read everything I have posted here and tell me about my foolishness. I'm not even pretending that I will be running this engine at 10-10ths, maybe way in the future or if I win the lotto.
Also, has anyone ever said that you're not "getting into anything" with a JRSC or turbo?? Any time you significantly increase your power you need to upgrade most systems/parts anyways, I'm not denying that.
The whole reason for this whole thread was that: "you know, it might be possible to make over 250whp without FI". This, to me, is absolutely incredible, even if it costs more than $5,000.</font>
You see? I asked you to send these types of comments to my e-mail, no one is interested in reading these things here.
BTCC cars are making over 300 hp NA for quite some time now, on 2 liter engines.
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Billy
North Texas Prelude Owners Group
www.ntpog.org
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 71dsp: You see? I asked you to send these types of comments to my e-mail, no one is interested in reading these things here.
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I saw, and even contemplated it too. But I chose to keep it in the open, plus I don't have any questions for you.
**NEWS FLASH***
Just got off the phone with them again. I must respectfully concede, that I just got different info. Very disappointing indeed.
265whp includes
cams/springs/ret/gears/ecu
pistons
con. rods
JUN header
JUN intake manifold
no cat
JUN prototype exhaust
------------- that's it
The disappointing part is that the JUN intake manifold is very expensive--price not out yet but B-series is $2800. I'm sure that this manifold is responsible for 20+ hp. Also, rods/pistons are NOT included. $3800-4000 price is only for cams/gears/ret/spr/ecu.
Header will cost around $1000, but it is still only a 4-2-1 that isn't tuned for topend like 4-1.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Aaron97SH:
Header will cost around $1000, but it is still only a 4-2-1 that isn't tuned for topend like 4-1.
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Can you get a 4-1 header in our cars? I guess if you lifted the motor a bit it's possible but besides that could it be done?
Billy, something that you said to Aaron bothers me. You said that a custom kit is always better than buying pieces off the shelf (or something to that affect). I think Aaron was intending to buy all the Jun pieces. Don't you think jun has/is designing all these pieces to work together?
I would also think, that just like a header/exhaust and headwork, they do their job independently but in "concert" work well. I think you'll agree that not everyone can afford to pull the motor, send it off, and do everything at once, right?
Personally, I would follow Billy's words, hand picking and researching your stuff will have better gains then a fully package, screw JUN. After the Super Street Si, I dont have much repsect for JUN after what it ran...
I don't think anything is wrong with that time, but I think you can get there cheaper than Jun (I do think that it should be faster than that, though).
You're saying somewhere around $6k for total parts, right? Cams, pistons, all that (incl. the $3800 for the manifold)? I still can't believe that for the manifold, I find it hard to believe it's necessary (or would cost that much).
Do you know if it a welded piece or cast? I would think you could one-off an STR-ish welded one much cheaper than that, but I guess they have to recoup R&D costs somehow.
I think Billy will be under that and I'm suspecting will make close to that power. I also would go so far as to say that Billy could probably do it all over again, cheaper- I think he ended up spending a little more on parts than he thought.
Aaron, you're talking about doing the build yourself, right? Not just shipping off your engine?
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Aaron97SH: Still, what's wrong with a 14.1 N/A???
Sow me a cheaper way to get there N/A.</font>
it would not cost anything to strip out all the heavy interior and make it a drag car... but no one prob. want to do that.
[This message has been edited by Luder-xhpx (edited March 23, 2001).]
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by marcucci:
You're saying somewhere around $6k for total parts, right? Cams, pistons, all that (incl. the $3800 for the manifold)? I still can't believe that for the manifold, I find it hard to believe it's necessary (or would cost that much). </font>
It's actually $2800, though still expensive.
I'm thinking I would have the following when I get the funds:
*AEM CAI
*DC Header
*Tanabe G-power
JUN cams
JUN or other springs/retainers
Skunk2 gears or other, prob. not JUN
JUN ecu
type-S manifold or other maybe skunk or STR, not JUN
JUN or Crower rods
JUN, JE or other pistons
It will no doubt cost less than the complete JUN package, but if I had unlimited funds I'd go with all JUN.
dont forget the installation cost! hehe...
should run you a good 3-4 hours of labor for the cams, 1 hour for the retainers...ooh, connecting rods? ouch...
In light of the price (we still have to remember that NA costs more per hp than FI), we should be glad that JUN is supporting the h22a.
Idiot companies, don't realize that if they actually made something decent for our cars, then they would rule the market for preludes, because they would probably be the only one making it! hahah dummies... oy...
man for all that money you guys are looking at spending..just boost it and rebuild the bottum end and everything...I am sure at the end it will cost the same and you'll be putting down 300+ hp.
Installation costs are like taxes.
People usually don't quote their after-tax income, just the gross.
All mods have tax on them, the deeper you go, the more the tax.
Have you ever boosted a 5th gen Prelude. It's a nightmare. I just got done putting on a f-max kit for a friend, and when I look back after the installation, and look at the engine bay, I appreciate my NA motor that much more.
The Prelude chassis and motor was never meant for turbo. I have a lot of experience putting on turbos, and the worst one yet is this Prelude. I've done a Infinity G20, serveral integras and civics, and even an Accord.
FI is not really reliable without a full engine management system, also, there are so many extra parts you have to deal with. Every additional part means that you have to check to make sure it's functioning correctly. With NA motors, you mostly just replace parts, not add them.
Aaron97SH: you are really not acting as u should right now..( or was it yesterday..neway... )
I've been waiting for JUN news and looking for updates on their website twice a week for like months now.. i really think that JUN makes really high quality stuff and knows what they are doing and were they are going with it..
but we are all only try to answer our questions here..
i don't understand why you keep acting like a child everytime somebody post something that brings a slight non accordance with ur posts..
we each of us heard 10 diff stories from diff people for the JUN kit..and most of us are all mixed up about what is the truth and what to expect about it..
neway...and for the RPM matter, i was only trying to understand why JUN gaved u this number and gaved 2 of my friends differents..
they told like a month ago that the peak torque would be around 5400RPM ...so
and about the mugen stuff..
mmm
mugen works on diff application for each diff cars..like for the CTR and ITR they try to emphasize on the high rpm band..but for the lude their header is designed to give power in smaller amounts but trhough most of the ranges..
neway..hope that u can be a little more "flexible" on ur posts and try to make friends instead of insulting everybody that have different opinions or perceptions than yours..
isn't that why we are all here??
to hear about what each other have to say?
...
