Gerhard’s Synthetic Oil Primer and Filter recommendation for New Owners
Gerhard’s Synthetic Oil Primer and Filter recommendation for New Owners
There are a few things that I gloss over...but it's still mostly correct...
What is the difference between synthetic and conventional motor oils?
Synthetic:
Synthetic lubricants are actually wonders of modern chemistry.
With synthetic motor oil special chemical reactions are completed to form a completely new molecule with the special properties that were intended for the new chemical.
These new substances that are created area called Group IV and Group V basestocks. [Basestocks are the oil substances that make up the base of the product your are purchasing. Motor oils are a combination of basestock(s) and additives.]
Group IV basestocks are made of a molecule type called polyalphaolefins (PAO).
Group V basestocks are made of a molecule type called esters.
Many synthetic oil manufacturers will use combinations of Group IV & V basestocks to create the lubricant they wish to market.
Conventional
Conventional motor oils are the classic oils distilled from petroleum or “dead dinosaurs� (aka “dino� for short).
The reason conventional oils are distilled is because petroleum is actually more of an alphabet soup of chemicals. As an example, this may mean that oil companies need to remove chemicals A-W from the soup and keep chemicals X,Y, and Z.
Once the parts of the petroleum the oil company seeks are distilled, the oil is then refined using two processes called hydrotreating and hydrocracking to get it into the purest form.
Hydrotreating is a process that adds organic chemicals to treat the petroleum based oils and create the chemical properties the refinery seeks.
Hydrocracking is the process of actually breaking a certain hydrocarbons (oil) involved in the petroleum products to produce a cleaner lubricant.
Conventional basestock motor oils comprise Groups I, II, and III. Most of the dino oils you buy off the shelf are Group III that has at the very least been hydrocracked.
Additives
In the cases of both synthetic lubricants and conventional lubricants all brands are generally distinguished by the additives they put in the oils. In general, synthetic lubricants have a higher quality additive package than most conventional lubricants.
What do the additives do?
- Prevent foaming.
- Prevent build up of sludge, gums, and varnishes.
- Neutralize acids and organic acids formed as by-products of combustion.
- Prevent engine seizing during high temperatures (within reason).
- Improve Viscosity (Modify Viscosity)
[A Note on Viscosity Modifiers: Viscosity Modifiers are made of long chain hydrocarbons. Interestinging enough these long hydrocarbon chains that are used to increase a motor oil's viscosity, can be cut into shorter chains by the mechanical movement of parts in your engine! Over time, a vehicle with a properly working engine will break down this modifiers and turn the oil into a lower weight. This is one of the reasons that 5w20 oils wear out so much quicker than Xw30 or Xw40 oils. If you notice that you burn more oil the further you are away from your oil change, then you should consider using a 0w40 or 10w40 synthetic motor oil. (The H22A4 spec uses 0w40 in Europe)]
Oil without a good additive package is worthless. Castrol Syntec is technically worse oil than Castrol GTX by this logic, as an example.
The great advertising false hood: Conventional lubricants that market themselves as synthetics!
Now that you know a little bit about base stocks and refining of motor oils, we should cover how oil is marketed in the United States.
Some years ago Mobil had a problem with Castrol marketing their Syntec product as synthetic lubricant…
Most companies have one of the larger oil companies manufacture the basestocks for them. They then blend the additives into the final product themselves (or pay someone to do it).
This was the case with Castrol Syntec. They had someone making a Group IV basestock for them, but suddenly found that it was expensive to compete in the synthetic oil market. Some really smart individual realized that the processes of Hydrotreating and Hydrocracking could be considered synthesizing a new product not found in petroleum natively and they could call Group III basestock (conventional) oil a “synthetic� product.
Mobil took Castrol to court and lost! So now anyone who wishes to call their product synthetic just needs to make sure they use a hydrocracked Group III basestock!
But you and I both know that it’s effectively fraud.
I know of two products that do this: Castrol Syntec and B&M Synthetic Trick Shift.
At some point, it’s believed that Mobil 1 started using Group III basestock as the carrier for their additive package. The court case enabled them to claim that their Group IV/V Mobil 1 oil is a fully synthetic product even with the Group III oil being slipped in via the additive package. (Despite continued attempts I’ve never been able to get a direct answer to this from Mobil 1. They always word around it…)
Why use synthetic oil?
Synthetic oils ARE superior products. The adage that “You get what you pay for!� is actually true in this case.
Most people don’t know why synthetic oils are really better. Let’s list the reasons and why:
- Synthetic oils have a lower coefficient of friction than conventional motor oils. What this means is that they are slippier that normal motor oils. If I were to put sand in the crankcase of my engine the resulting frictions would completely destroy the engine in a matter of minutes. However, the difference between synthetic and conventional oils is no as pronounced. That does not mean their isn’t a serious difference to your engine over the life of the vehicle. Engines that are broken down after using synthetic oils tend to show significantly less wear than the same model engines that have used conventional oils.
- Synthetic oils have better additive packages. I’ve already covered this above.
- Synthetic oils are more chemically stable. Sythetic oils do not break down due to the extremes in temperature found in automotive use.
- Synthetic oils burn less (aka are less volatile). This is almost the same as that last statement, but translates into the fact the synthetic do not tend to thicken or condense with use over time. This means they will leave less residue on your engine parts.
- Synthetic oils have better film strengths. This means that they adhere to the surfaces of engine parts better than conventional motor oils. They also don’t shear off of surfaces as easily. This translate to much better lubrication.
Ok, time for me to rant:
Most people seem to think that they should baby their Prelude and put really good synthetic oil in it. However, they also seem to think that they should change their oil every 3000 miles. This is completely and totally wrong!
Here is why:
Oil companies, filter manufacturers, and your local Honda dealers have created this myth that you are better off changing your motor oil every 3000 miles.
It might have been true that this was the best practice for anyone using conventional motor oil until about 1990. However, today, with the higher technology that has been placed at the disposal of the oil manufacturers, there is no scientific reason to change your oil outside of the OEM specifications.
What are the OEM spec's for changing the oil in a H22A based Honda Prelude? Answer: 7500 miles
This means that Honda has looked at the lowest common denominator [aka c-r-a-p-p-i-e-s-t oil manufacturer] and determined that even with the worst oil on the market you are safe at changing the oil every 7500 miles.
I know, I know, you're probably thinking: "But Gerhard, these are the same rat-bastards that gave us the Sequential Sportshift Automatic Transmission...?"
While that may be true but, the H22A engine used in the 4th and 5th gens are known to be quite reliable even when poorly maintained. There are plenty of them that are on the road with well over 100000 miles and no signs of problems what so ever.
The reality is that all your really need to keep your Prelude running well is to get a good oil filter and use a decent synthetic oil.
What are the decent synthetic oils to use in the 4th and 5th Gen Preludes?
The answer is that there are many good synthetic oils on the market:
- Mobil 1
- AMSOIL
- RedLine
- Royal Purple
- Valvoline
- The German version of Castrol Syntec [It must say “Made in Germany� on the rear label.]
What are some of the differences between the different brands of synthetic oils?
Well, Mobil 1 is reputed to have a certain percent of conventional oil in it as a result of the additives being dissolved into group III basestock. It’s hard to really know how true this is, but the indications are that Mobil 1 is more volatile than RedLine or Amsoil by about 5%. (That means it burns more easily, and that is consistant with there being dino oil in it.)
Then there is Castrol Syntec aka “the c-r-a-p-p-i-e-s-t supposedly synthetic oil on the planet!� Castrol’s USA made version of Syntec is actually reputed to be made entirely out of group III basestock. Oil analysis from various sources show that this stuff doesn’t even last as well as Castrol GTX! There is hope if you are a lover of this brand: It turns out that there is also a German produced version of this oil. Lab tests indicate that it’s actually a really good oil. If the back label on the Castrol Syntec bottle says “Made in Germany,� then you can use this oil.
What synthetic oil do I use in my 4th or 5th Gen Prelude if I burn oil?
Well, my first question is: How much oil do you burn??
If the answer is 3-4 quarts every 7500 miles, then you’ve pretty much got the same H22A engine that the rest of us do and it’s not a big deal.
If you are burning less than that: Kudos for you! (You bastard…)
If you are burning MORE than 4 qts every 7500 miles, you need to check the compression of your cylinders and look for leaks! You may have something wrong with your engine!
Basically, if your car burns very little oil then you should use 5w30 in your Prelude. Any of the major brands will work well with some being slightly better than others.
The real difference comes with high heat and track based usage. If you are not changing you oil every race, then I’d use anything but Mobil 1 or Syntec. Mobil 1 is not reputed to last as well during high heat and continuous racing environments. (Anyone want to send a sample to Blackstone Labs or Oil Analysers after 8 hours of good hot track useage? Email me!)
If you do burn oil, then I’d use either 0w40 or 10w40 oil in your 4th or 5th Gen!
Oil testing has determined that AMSOIL 10w40 oil with a good filter will last for 10000 miles with only a filter change at 5000 miles.
Honestly, I’d just get a good filter, put AMSOIL ASL 10w40 in my car, and change the oil every 7500 miles. You will notice your oil consumption drop without an effect on your gas mileage. AMSOIL is a good product.
Mobil 1 0w40 oil is also a decent choice if you burn oil and would like to slow it down. It will also last to 7500 miles without any difficulty.
Now for the answers to the typical questions I get after my previous statements.
- Synthetic oils tend to pump to -40 degrees F. (Most flow to about -50F.)
- AMSOIL 10W40 pumps at the same exactly temp that Mobil 1 5w30 does: -54F
- The OEM drain interval is 7500 for the 4th and 5th gens. Synthetic oils tend to wear significantly better than conventional oils. This means that the drain intervals can be significantly extended if you want. However, 7500 miles is a fine interval and the dash board will indicate when to change the oil.
- Changing you oil at 7500 miles has no impact on the life of your car, but it’s a lot better for your wallet and the environment.
- In Europe 0w40 oil is listed as acceptable for the 5th gen. This means that 40w is not a problem for the H22A series engine.
- Mobil 1 is about 5% more volatile than AMSOIL or RedLine (aka it burns more easily). This is part of the reason that you will burn less oil if you use AMSOIL or RedLine.
- Oil analysis shows no difference between 3000 and 7500 mile drain intervals in an H22A when a good oil filter is used.
- Dealers have a vested interest in telling people to change their oil every 3000 miles. Honda has not said this! It’s all about money.
- Most H22A Preludes burn about 1 qt of oil ever 3000 miles.
- Synthetic lubricants have a lower coefficient of friction than conventional motor oils which results in better gas mileage and slightly increased horse power.
What oil filters should I use?
The construction of an oil filter only tells part of the story. That being said there are a bunch of poorly manufactured filters out there that you should stay away from. The top of the crappy filter list are:
- STP
- Bosch
- WalMart SuperTech
I’m only talking about the OEM sized versions of these brands. These 3 filters are exactly the same. They have a substandard anti-drain back valve and a sub-standard by-pass valve. Testing of used variants of these filters have seen the anti-drainback valve fail in as little as 2000 miles of use, and the by-pass valves seem to either work all the time or not at all. DO NOT USE THESE FILTERS.
Use the OEM sized AMSOIL, Mobil 1, K&N, Fram x2, AC Delco, Tokyo-Roki, Union Sangyo, Hastings, or Wix filters. These brands are by far the best.
The actually brand names version is the best idea when it comes to companies like Hastings or Wix that also make filters for other companies. The media used in their non-branded versions tend to no be quite as good.
The Fram x2 is the only heavy duty constructed Fram oil filter. It does use the exact same by-pass valve as the OEM USA/Canada Honda filter. Some folks do not like this design but I’ve got to tell you that it’s a very heavy duty design in the case of the x2 filters. (I’ll have lab tests in soon to tell us just how well the x2 filters.)
Gerhard, do you have an answer regarding switching from using conventional to synthetic and the rumored effects this can have on engine gaskets and seals? I'm considering switching over and I have 45k miles of conventional use on my car. I've never heard a decent, straight answer regarding this rumor.
You will be all good, unless any of the seals/gaskets on your engine have begun to degrade. Even then, you should be fine. Early synthetics did this due to lousy seal compatibility, more modern ones don't.
My father just switched his 2 classics over to synthetic. A 1972 T/A with 50k on it, and a 1973 Alfa-Romeo Montreal. No issues whatsoever. No leaks, no burning, and better oil pressure than with regular. The T/A would be the one to show problems if there were any, as it mostly comes out to do smoky burnouts.
Originally posted by sharkcohen Gerhard, do you have an answer regarding switching from using conventional to synthetic and the rumored effects this can have on engine gaskets and seals? I'm considering switching over and I have 45k miles of conventional use on my car. I've never heard a decent, straight answer regarding this rumor.
You can go back and forth between synthetic oil and dino oil without problems.
The issue is GOING to synthetic FROM dino when the car has been sitting for long periods of time and/or has more than 100,000+ miles on it.
Synthetic is far better at getting into all of the tight spaces in your engine.
If the car has been sitting for long periods of time without use, then oil (whatever type) has not been coating the seals. If you switch to synthetic oil under these circumstances (in some cases) you can end up with leaks.
Cars with high milage can also be in the same situation. In those cases the seals are worn and may be prone to leaking anyway. This is less of a considersation in Honda Preludes than with othe vehicles.
Ex:
My father bought a 1989 Honda Accord with 30,000 miles on it. He was incredibly pleased as it only cost him $1500.00 and was in perfect condition. What he failed to consider was that the car had to be sitting for most of it's life. This meant that the engine was not getting up to operating temperatures regularly. It also ment that that engine seals were not getting an oil on them either. He's uses Mobil 1 and decided to put that in the car. Suddenly, the car is leaking like a sieve. Bad head gasket, and a bunch of others too...
Would the problem have shown itself if he used a dino motor oil? Yes, but not as quickly. Also, the dino usage would have evenually helped the seals to a certain extent.
Another question for you, Gerhard: where can I purchase Amsoil products on the Internet? I can't find them anywhere in my area. I especially want to pick up their synthetic ATF.
Originally posted by sharkcohen Another question for you, Gerhard: where can I purchase Amsoil products on the Internet? I can't find them anywhere in my area. I especially want to pick up their synthetic ATF.
You want to find a dealer that can have AMSOIL drop shipped from one of their warhouses in CA directly to you.
1) I've been using Mobil1 0w40 on my wife's '03 Passat Wagon 2.8L V6... and it works great. If it will help my H22's oil consumption and not effect my performance, I'd love to try it. But, it has always been my understanding that a heavier weight oil in our motors such as 0w40 or 10w40 will decrease power. The last time I tried 10w40 my motor felt sluggish vs. 5w30. What's your view on this?
2) I run Mobil1 and drive HARD daily (hit vtec at least 10-20 times a day..its a long commute). Wouldn't my oil break down sooner than your average driver? 7500 miles seems alot for the abuse I do, especially when you factor in the oil I burn (1qt every 2000 miles).
The only thing to say is that 5w30 or 10w30 are not going to break down if you a lead foot and VTECing all the time.
I do too... and my oil reports have never been bad.
Since I recently descovered my cam seal was leaking, I'd recommend that you check it. You may be leaking a bunch of oil rather than actually burning as much as you think.
Anyway, the only time you're going to have a problem with serious oil brake down is if you are running some form of forced induction or seeing heavy track usage in very hot conditions.
Otherwise, you are completely golden.
I've not really noticed any loss of power with the 10w40 AMSOIL.
Where I notice the biggest power loss is cold weather vs hot weather.
Of course, it's all subjective.
If you are burning 1 QT every 2000 miles then you are also topping off your oil every 2000 miles. In this case you are adding fresh additives to you existing oil... which means that you are absolutely not going to have any breakdown related issues.
From a filtration perspective any decent filter is going to be fine to 7500 miles.
this might be the most obvious question you ever got but i wanted to make sure so bear with me
what type of oil should i use for the winter???
in the summer i was using 5w30 like the manual says....should i stick with this or should i just get 10w30
i live in cold climate...lots of snow and my car has 42K on it and ive been using synthetic..Mobil 1
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-Anthony- PSN/Xbox Live GT: Evoking1230
2005 EVO VIII-SOLD/R.I.P.
2000 Honda Prelude SH - Gone But Not Forgotten
If you use AMSOIL it will flow 5 to 10 degrees better than a comparible Mobil 1 product.
Mobil 0w40 has exactly the same cold flow charateristics as it 5w30 product.
AMSOIL ASL 5w30 flows a -14 degrees colder than Mobil 1 5w30 and almost exactly the same as Mobil 1 0w30...
RedLine oils have about the same cold flow characteristics as comparible Mobil 1 products. It's their volitility and high-temp that make RedLine lubes stand out.
In your case, 0w30 Mobil 1 is probably the best at this time.
As for the 7500miles change period....this is totally true. Here in Europe, each and every car has 10000km (7500miles) period, even the oldest ones. The new ones have 30000km (20000miles).
Another question: here in Europe, there are dino, semi-syntetic (or blended) and full syntetic oils. From all the disscussions I can see that you in the USA know only "syntetic" and "dino". What is your "syntetic" oils - full syntetic or also semi-syntetic?
Cam seal is wet, but not leaking anything serious that I can tell. Surely wouldn't have been leaking when it was new..and I've been burning that much oil since day one. It's on my maintenance list though.
Good point about adding oil. I see how that actually helps.
I guess I should send in my oil sample - its the only way to know for sure.
Originally posted by petrveit Another question: here in Europe, there are dino, semi-syntetic (or blended) and full syntetic oils.
I live in the UK, and I've been using Castrol GTX Magnatec for the last few oil changes. I was originally tricked into thinking this was fully synthetic, but have since discovered it is semi-synthetic. (Correct me if I'm still wrong, because it's hard to find UK/Europe-specific information on the web!)
Now I'm wondering whether I should stick with this, or whether I should go with something else. (My opinion of Castrol has dropped since I learned of their "false" advertising.) Ideally, I would use Mobil 1, but it is very expensive in this country. Even the Castrol GTX is £25 ($42) for 4.5 L. Mobil 1 would cost me £35 ($58) for 4.0 L (not even enough for a complete oil change!).
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1994 JDM Prelude Si VTEC w/ 4WS
Sherwood Green Pearl (G-78P)
Originally posted by petrveit Great info, Gerhard.
As for the 7500miles change period....this is totally true. Here in Europe, each and every car has 10000km (7500miles) period, even the oldest ones. The new ones have 30000km (20000miles).
Another question: here in Europe, there are dino, semi-syntetic (or blended) and full syntetic oils. From all the disscussions I can see that you in the USA know only "syntetic" and "dino". What is your "syntetic" oils - full syntetic or also semi-syntetic?
It's been awhile since I did any driving in Germany, and I've only got information about car repair from my relatives... So I'm going to make a few supositions:
I suspect that in Europe that cost of lubricants is higher than it is in the USA. (Gas is certainly much more expensive.)
Following that logic, I'm going to assume that the market in the USA for blended oils tends to be much less, as people either use a fully synthetic products or a dino (traditional) product.
Cost is usually the factor when it comes to purchasing products, and price point is going to determine what people will buy. Oil manufacturers can get away with blends and make hirer profits, especially in Europe when cost is generally higher.
In the USA, at WalMart (a leading chain store with massive buying power), you can purchase the following:
Mobil 1 at $4.67 a QT.
Valvoline Synthetic at $3.97 a QT
Castrol GTX (dino) at $1.90ish a QT
Valvoline Synthetic/Dino Blend at $2.75 a QT
I think the Euro is currently about 1 to 1 or maybe a little better right now. So these are probably face value costs to you.
All of the oils above are good oils. Over the life of a vehicle I doubt any of those listed above are going to be really that much better than the others. (The difference is going to be most pronouced when you compare the Castrol GTX to the other 3 lubes in cold environments.)
The real advantage operationally is going to be that the semi-syn and full syn oils will pump at much lower temperatures. This will be better for the top half of your engine in cold temperatures than normal dino oils (including GTX) that will thicken a great deal in cold temps.
Historically, the biggest difference (aside from coeffecient of friction and cold pumping) between synthetic oils and dino oils are the additive packages. Castrol GTX is quite good for a dino oil... so it's a little unfair to use that as my example dino, but it was the only one who's price I could remember...
Our synthetic oils tend to be fully synthetic: Meaning made completely out of Group IV and Group V basestocks.
Cam seal is wet, but not leaking anything serious that I can tell. Surely wouldn't have been leaking when it was new..and I've been burning that much oil since day one. It's on my maintenance list though.
Good point about adding oil. I see how that actually helps.
I guess I should send in my oil sample - its the only way to know for sure.
Thanks man
That was my mistake too.
It looks like a little oil, and turns out to be quite a bit more!
I when under the car last night and changed the rubber boots for the tie rods ends (they were a little cracked)... At the same time I checked the rear-right of the engine for wetness. It has not returned. (The engine was pretty wet with oil underneith above and to the right of the oil filter. That was completley from the Cam Seal... it's quite deceptive!)
Leaking from day one... probably not... but it's REALLY hard to say. I can't believe what a piece of crap the OEM cam seal really is.
Hell, in Germany I'd be really surprised if the German government didn't fine Honda for that! It's a serious crime to pollute like that...
and my car has 42K on it and ive been using synthetic..Mobil 1
