Dist cap and rotor wear (pics! 56k beware) - Honda Prelude Forum
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Old 07-13-2007, 01:28 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Dist cap and rotor wear (pics! 56k beware)

To the more experienced out there: do you think this is enough cap and rotor wear to cause a misfire CEL?





The wear on the cap seems drastic especially considering they are only about a year old and have about 15k miles on them. If you look at the contact posts they are all chamfered. The "burning" on the rotor doesn't concern me as much but it could mean be affecting spark. I dunno. I'm going to replace them anyway but wanted the opinion.

I got a misfire in cyl #2 (code 62, cleared it and it came back). Starting down the troubleshooting list plugs are OK, wires aren't that old. Cap & rotor not old but looks like crap.
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Old 07-13-2007, 01:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
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i'm going with rotor wear.
bad seal? 200k ones don't have that much rust.
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Old 07-13-2007, 01:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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just saw the corrosion on the cap, clean it out, replace the rotor, voila?
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Old 07-13-2007, 11:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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The cap and rotor look worn...as they should for 15k miles, especially if you drive hard and go to redline often. I change mine every 5-7k miles and they look the same as yours.

Are you sure that #2 cyl plug is ok?...post a pic. Also, I wouldn't throw out the possibility of a bad wire just because they "aren't that old". The Helms manual has good instructions for testing.
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Old 07-13-2007, 11:52 PM   #5 (permalink)
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i need to change mine!
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Old 07-14-2007, 09:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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i'm not gonna lie you just scared me and i ordered new ones
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Old 07-15-2007, 03:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kool-Lude View Post
The cap and rotor look worn... ...I change mine every 5-7k miles . . .
Seriously?

That's like changing your oil as soon as it turns black (every 400 miles) . . .
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Old 07-15-2007, 05:20 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemione View Post
Seriously?

That's like changing your oil as soon as it turns black (every 400 miles) . . .
That would be crazy...........I at least wait until 500 miles

Ignition parts wear based on driving style, not just age. The harder you drive, the more often they need changing. So I was dead serious
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Old 07-15-2007, 07:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Mine look like that after a year as well, everytime I change them the car runs better immediately however never had a misfire from it.
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Old 07-16-2007, 12:46 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Looks a ton better than mine did the last time I changed it.
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Old 07-16-2007, 10:10 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I installed the new cap & rotor yesterday evening, but didn't reset the ECU. The CEL turned off on Thursday. The car felt better at low engine speeds (usually where ignition problems show up). But the CEL came on after about 45 minutes of driving. I'm gonna pull the fuse tonight and see if it comes back.

Kool-lude: I'd post pics of my plugs but all my tools are an hour away with my Miata this week.
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Old 07-17-2007, 09:47 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Back to the drawing board. The CEL came back on so it wasn't the cap & rotor.
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Old 07-17-2007, 06:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
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That sucks. Hopefully you don't have to replace the distri$butor, although I'm drawing a blank as to what could cause a misfire that you haven't already ruled out . . .

How does the ECU determine a misfire? Could it be a false positive from your knock sensor?



And as an aside, I just looked through my records to see when I last replaced my cap and rotor . . . and that would be the free emissions recall/service thingy from Honda, back at 75k. So that puts the mileage on my current ignition system at . . . . err . . . 86k miles.
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Old 07-17-2007, 08:51 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemione View Post
And as an aside, I just looked through my records to see when I last replaced my cap and rotor . . . and that would be the free emissions recall/service thingy from Honda, back at 75k. So that puts the mileage on my current ignition system at . . . . err . . . 86k miles.


yeah mine hasn't ever been changed probably.. 140k on it most likely
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Old 07-18-2007, 02:53 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemione View Post
That sucks. Hopefully you don't have to replace the distri$butor, although I'm drawing a blank as to what could cause a misfire that you haven't already ruled out . . .

How does the ECU determine a misfire? Could it be a false positive from your knock sensor?

According to the Helms it determined misfires not from the knock sensor but from the crank position sensor. I guess a "misfire" causes an abnormality in the "beat" from that sensor.

I'm gonna switch plugs and see if it follows the plug or it's on the same cylinder. Pending the results of that I'll have to try a valve adjustment. And do compression test/leakdown. After that it's trying to diagnose fuel injector problems or air leaks. Thing is, if there is a miss I don't feel it or notice it. Engine seems fine to me.
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Old 07-18-2007, 10:31 PM   #16 (permalink)
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how old are the plug wires?
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:42 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Yeah- that wear was not great but shouldn't cause a CEL.

Check the wires and coil but also do a compression check.
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Old 08-03-2007, 04:28 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Last weekend I checked the wires and coil. Results are below. As I was pulling the #2 wire off the dist cap the terminal came off the wire. Fortunately I saved my OEM wires so I put them back on. Interestingly, the OEM wires seem to have less resistance then the NGK wires.

Wires: Resistance limit in Helms is 25k ohms, results are in k ohms
#1: 6.92
#2: Broke
#3: 4.71
#4: 4.00
Coil wire: 3.18

Coil:
Primary (resistance between terminals A & C), helms say 0.64-0.78 ohms. I got 0.3. Would this be an indication of a problem?
Secondary (resistance between terminal A & spark plug wire terminal), helms says 14.4-21.6k ohms. I got 19.17.

And I took a picture of my plugs for Kool-lude.

#1 through #4, right to left

When I put the plugs back in I switched them around. Swapped 2 & 3 and 1 & 4.

I reset the ECU after this. It came right back on after two driving cycles. Codes 72 & 73.

I did the compression test today. Results were:
#1: 210
#2: 220
#3: 230
#4: 227

Oddly enough when I started the engine back up after doing the compression test the CEL went out.
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Old 08-03-2007, 07:27 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Compression looks good. Plugs look good, except for #2 looks rich...result of the misfire.

My friends WRX had the same issue (misfire cel and fouled plugs). By mistake he switched the coils around (WRX has 4) after checking the plugs. And when he fired it up again, the cel followed the bad coil. Problem solved.

But since we only have one coil, I'm not sure what to say. I have no clue what your primary resistance test indicates, other than being out of spec. If you want, I can check mine for comparison?
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Old 08-03-2007, 07:35 PM   #20 (permalink)
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That switched around fouled plug (#2) is probably causing the #3 misfire cel now. You should throw in a fresh set. The problem may just have been that busted wire.
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