Chipped ECUs Information + Comparo (Stock vs Spoon vs KS-ROM vs 'Mugen') - Honda Prelude Forum

Keith · 12-05-2004, 12:20 AM

Hey guys,

There are a couple of people who had some questions regarding aftermarket or chipped P13 (4th gen VTEC ECU) and I wanted to share some of my recent findings...

First of all, only OBD1 JDM P13 ECUs can be chipped.

Why would you want to modify a JDM ECU? (how can you tell which ECU you have -> http://www.pgmfi.org/twiki/pub/Libra...us.check_1.jpg)

Well you can modify an ECU designed for a automatic transmission and convert it to 5-speed ECU. 'Chipping' refers to installing a socket for an EPROM chip which has a program already written to it. Usually, the program will remove the enforced speed limiter of 118 mph on the JDM ECU. As well, it will change fuel maps, raise or remove the rev limiter, and change the VTEC engagement point.

Real or Fake?

Now as far as I know there are only a few 'real' programs that are available to be written on the EPROM chip. The three programs are from Spoon, KS-ROM, and JUN program. What about these Mugen and Skunk2 ones on ebay for the H22? Well, Mugen and Skunk2 never sold ECUs or chips for the H22. Spoon, KS-ROM and JUN did. More than likely, people are selling a chips with a 'Mugen' or Skunk2 program when in reality it could be any one of the three or somebody else's homemade program.

Spoon ECU/Chip (not a P13 but you get the point)

Reference -> ECU - Computers Honda Prelude

KS-ROM ECU/Chip

Reference -> http://216.239.37.104/translate_c?hl...l%3Den%26lr%3D

JUN

Reference -> JUN DEMONSTRATION CARS - JUN SUPER LEMON PRELUDE

Does it really make a difference?

Welll here are some back to back results between a stock JDM P13 ECU, Spoon program, KS-ROM program and a 'Mugen' program. I got the Mugen program/ECU from the shop that I dynoed my car from.

Don't mind the peak numbers, looks like my car wasn't running as strong as 2 weeks ago... could be a number of factors but I did change over to my winter tires + rims since last time...

Either way, it's clear that the KS-ROM program under performed to the other programs and even to the stock ECU. It looks like the 'MUGEN' program that my shop has is the Spoon one if not a simular program. As well you can see my car will still running pretty rich still. I ran 2 runs with each ECU/program and post the best out of each. I would love to test a real JUN program ECU if anybody has one...

I decided to stick with the Spoon program/ECU for my car since it's a quick 5 whpr gain + eliminates the speed limiter/govenor (I figure I'll keep this ECU till I get a Hondata S200). I bought my Spoon program ECU from a reputible ECU programmer who is well known in the Honda community and got the Spoon program from a REAL Spoon P13 ECU. He just copied the program and writes it to a EPROM/chip. If anybody is interested in getting a Spoon program ECU, you can PM me and I'll forward you the details.

To learn more about ECUs and chipping them, this is a great reference -> http://www.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin/view

If anybody has more to offer or comment, please post.

Keith

NiMaDiFoB · 12-05-2004, 10:38 AM

mad props on finding out this info and sharing with us. What would the benefit of having a chipped ECU have over just a plain ECU with either VAFC or Greddy Emanage? price?

94LOOD · 12-05-2004, 11:10 AM

wow great post, i have always wondered if those ebay chips were BS

Artifex · 12-05-2004, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith

Hey guys,

There are a couple of people who had some questions regarding aftermarket or chipped P13 (4th gen VTEC ECU) and I wanted to share some of my recent findings...

First of all, only OBD1 JDM P13 ECUs can be chipped.

...

If anybody has more to offer or comment, please post.

This is great Keith, you are the first one I have ever met who has dynoed these ROMs. Props to you for doing so.

Just FYI, I have been chipping Honda ECUs for several months now. My recent projects focus on the P13s, so I will share with you what I know.

Technically speaking, not just JDM ECUs are chippable. The only reason it appears that way is that only the JDM tuners are reprogramming the P13, and they don't use the USDM versions.

In case people don't know, there is only 1 hardware difference between a JDM and USDM ECU, which is the resistor jumper area. This is easily modifiable (I can do it in 2 minutes). So USDM ECUs are reprogrammable, but there are no "commercial" ROMs available for USDM ECUs.

The PGMFI community is being pretty lazy, but there is enough information out there to be able to do custom tunes for P13s right now if we had a ROM editor. Currently, Crome is the only editor available, and it supports P13 ROMs in a very limited way. I am waiting for another coder to enhance an editor with the new P13 info. If you want a commercial solution, Neptune supports the P13. You can chip an ECU with that if you have access to it.

If anyone is interested, I can probably take a look at the different ROMs in Crome and tell you what the fuel and timing values are. Some of the JDM tuners design their tunes for their own builds, which can be significantly different from a stock motor. I would be wary about running them blindly.

Also, if anyone wants to have their P13 chipped, send me a PM and we can work something out.

Keith · 12-05-2004, 12:34 PM

Thanks for the info Ken...

Let me know if you come across a real JUN program so I can dyno test it...

Keith

alphajesse · 12-05-2004, 08:41 PM

This whole "only JDM p13s" are chippable thing is why I'm trying to trade one of my JDM p13s for a US one.
I can do a Spoon or stock proggie, with speed limiter removed either way.
I plan on making some worthwhile programs for US p13 ecus without having to convert them to JDM.

LVSBB6 · 12-05-2004, 09:25 PM

Thanks for the info Keith!

I have a P13 with Jun program, will take my car to the dyno once tranny swap is completed.

Keith · 12-05-2004, 10:38 PM

Are you sure it's a 'real' JUN program? I'd be interested in the before/after results. If you want to do some program trading, let me know.

Keith

LVSBB6 · 12-05-2004, 11:43 PM

As I will be installing Jun camshafts, the Jun program fits the best to my application.
Just like your spoon program, my Jun program was a direct copy from the genuine Jun ECU, it was done by a reputable shop from hong kong which had a real Jun ECU for their Euro R.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith

Are you sure it's a 'real' JUN program? I'd be interested in the before/after results. If you want to do some program trading, let me know.

Keith

Lexcrob · 03-19-2008, 09:31 PM

just tryin to fig this out i have a 98 SS auto usdm ecu .. if i read this right you can convert it to a jdm ecu? if thats right how much does the spoon chip run $ or do you have to like know someone and dyno it .. newb to ecu stuff

petern101 · 03-19-2008, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexcrob

just tryin to fig this out i have a 98 SS auto usdm ecu .. if i read this right you can convert it to a jdm ecu? if thats right how much does the spoon chip run $ or do you have to like know someone and dyno it .. newb to ecu stuff

Quote:

First of all, only OBD1 JDM P13 ECUs can be chipped.

1. Your's isn't obd1
2. its not jdm
3. its not a p13

You want a chipped ecu nowadays? check out phearable for a cheap way.

want a better ecu? run neptune or similar level ecu. (btw, you should search for those)