Gerhard

Guys,

I've been posting tons of messages about the 5th Gen Auto issues on the Acura TL and CL web sites because they also have thoughes same transmissions. (I'm out to screw B&M Racing for false advertising...)

Anyway, I came across the great message / ad-like composition for this company called SynLube. I could care about their products, but there is some interesting information about the famous Mobil 1 - Castrol issue that eventually ended up with the oil industry being able to market petroleum products as synthetic lubricants when they are not:

Not Invented here

Companies that Invent or develop certain products often proclaim and insist that only their products, are the ONLY ones to use, because after all "they" Invented it. So if someone Invented or developed something else that is same or better somewhere else, well it can not possibly be ANY GOOD – Was not Invented here!

So, company that Invented PAO swears by it. Company that Invented Polyol swears by it. Company that Invented Ester swears by it. Company that Invented Poly-Glycol swears by it. Company that Invented stuff, that does not even have common name yet, swears by it.

The argument of superiority seems to fade somewhat, when the ultimate purpose "Lubrication" is compared to "Light".

No seriously: "LET THERE BE LIGHT !"

Consider this:

Your objective is to have "Light".

You can achieve it with naturally occurring sources such as Sun or Moon.

You can achieve it with flame from Wood, Coal, Wax, Oil or whatever else will burn.

You can achieve it by making materials incandescent with heat such as molten metal, lava, etc.

You can achieve it by electric spark such as discharge lamps.

You can achieve it by electron flow in certain gases such as Neon.

You can achieve it by electron potential in electro-luminescent materials.

You can achieve it by chemical reaction either natural (firefly) or man induced (phosphorus).

Or you can achieve it by combination of effects such as in incandescent bulb or fluorescent tube.

If "Light" is your objective, what does it matter how it is generated as long as it serves it’s ultimate purpose, it allows you to "see".

You can spend eternity to argue the superiority of one source over the other, the relative wavelengths, energy efficiencies, the abundance of the source at any given time or location, but the ultimate result is that any and all of the above will provide "Light"

Similarly in the lubricant business the objective is "Lubrication".

So that surfaces in intimate contact and in relative motion will move freely without excessive wear, noise generation (remember the squeaky wheel?), or any other problems that would impair the device’s usefulness and longevity.

The fact that lubricant is "synthetic" or Man-made does not immediately render it superior to a Petroleum sourced product, or even one of Vegetable or Animal origin.

Just as chemically produced light might not be automatically superior to sunlight.

However, in some specific application it just might be the "ONLY" right light to use.

The superior "Lubricant" is the one that achieves its purpose in a specific application for a specific desired service life and service severity at a minimal cost (both financial and environmental).

The superiority of any lubricant has nothing to do with it being or not being "synthetic".

The only superiority of Man-made products is that the performance, composition, etc. is far more predictable, more consistent, than composition of any products from natural sources.

The performance repeatability of Man-made "synthetic" products is really the superior advantage over naturally sourced products.



For example:

Each "batch" of Base Oil produced, even from the Crude Oil from the same Oil Field, can vary in specifications and performance. And therefore the ultimate performance of the final product in a consumer application can NOT be totally predictable or repeatable.

There are dozens of well-documented episodes of Motor Oils, that failed to properly protect engines in the field, yet were produced the same way as other batches that had no apparent problems.

The "synthetic" Man-made products on the other hand can be made uniform day after day for years to come with virtually no distinction or variation in final performance.

"Synthetic" therefore is not better by virtue of being "synthetic"; but it is definitely better than "natural" by virtue of being uniform and consistent in quality and final performance.

"It can’t be any good because it was not invented here" is the absolutely worst approach to lubrication, and unfortunately is the source of many problems and inferior and very expensive products.





Not Made here

The curse of "Not Made here" is almost as bad, if not worse than the "Not Invented here".

Company that makes PAO will ultimately produce final lubricant, which is mostly PAO.

Company that makes Ester will ultimately produce final lubricant, which is mostly Ester.

Both will claim that their final lubricant is superior in every aspect of performance to the one made by the other competitor. Neither will acknowledge that their competitor’s product has ANY merit.

Once again: "LET THERE BE LIGHT, AGAIN!"

Once we depart from "lubricant business" to "Light", we can immediately see how silly an argument that is too!

It is in most circumstances as silly as proclaiming the superiority of GREEN light over RED light, when the ultimate need is for a WHITE light. OK, so no matter what you do, you can only create "colored" light, but wait what if you ADD a BLUE light = end result of mix of RED-GREEN-BLUE (RGB) just like on your computer’s monitor is WHITE light.

So similarly mixing PAO with Ester is better than either alone, irrespective of the producer’s claims, but wait what if you ADD a Polyol as well, it will be better yet!

That’s why at SynLube, Inc. we DO NOT produce ANY base stocks, we just buy the very best from who ever has what WE need to formulate and blend the ABSOLUTELY BEST PERFORMING finished product.

We at SynLube, Inc. are not suffering from the "Not Made here" dilemma.

By not having multi million dollar investments tied up in production equipment that new developments can make instantaneously obsolete, we have the luxury of being very flexible and have the ability to make the BEST products at ALL times.

When something new or better becomes available we immediately incorporate it in our product development and testing.

While most other companies only use one or two "synthetic" Base Oils, and Mobil now uses three in their newly improved "Tri-synthetic" formula of Mobil 1, we at SynLube, Inc. have been using FIVE different Base Oil Fluids and THREE colloidal Solids in our SynLubeâ„¢ Lube-4-Lifeâ„¢ products.

This is not done with intend to be "different", but with intend to have the VERY BEST products.

However, our customers are ultimately protected from being the test guinea pigs, because nothing is released to our final customer unless it has been tested for many miles and years in our test vehicles and those of participating fleets.

When you get a SynLubeâ„¢ product it is not NEW and IMPROVED, but it is PROVEN, DEPENDABLE and FULLY TESTED and when WE say FULLY it is 100%!







When full is not full & 100% is not 100%.

Usually when reasonable intelligent people say that something is 100% or Full or Fully (something) then that to other reasonable intelligent people really means that:

"100% means unity or FULL".

Well, not so in the oil industry or more specifically in the Synthetic Lubricant part of it.

"Full" or "Fully" is not really meaning that ALL of it (lubricant) is what it says.

"100% Synthetic" is not really a lie, when less than 100% of the finished product is "Synthetic", because cryptically it relates to something else (Base Oil), and therefore it is the TRUTH.

Except that {or "exclusive of" as they like to say}, it (100%) really does not relate to what you think

– The finished product – such as Motor Oil.

Here then is the expose, and the sorted details that are the norm in the Synthetic Lubricant Business.



The case of the "carrier oil".

Example:

Back labels of Mobil 1 products for many years had following " * exclusive of carrier oil" statement in substantially smaller print.

While at the same time the front label declared the Mobil 1 as: "100% Synthetic * ". in really large print.

If you are a good detective you’ll notice that the statement on the Front label ends with an asterisk (*) and the statement on the Back label starts with an asterisk (*).

If you are really good, you’ll figure out that the asterisks are the magical "glue" that connects the two together and that what should be understood is:



" 100 % Synthetic, exclusive of carrier oil ".



Well, that is only the beginning of our decoding mission. When asked, majority of consumers has absolutely no idea what "carrier oil" is, or what the meaning of "exclusive of" really is.

So if you are totally confused at this point, do not despair, soon you shall be enlightened with a wisdom worthy of CLS (Certified Lubrication Specialist).

First, however, you have to either consult you dictionary (a technical one with specialties in oil industry well defined), or just have to take our word for it.

The usual suspects are: Additive, Base Oil, Base Stock, Carrier Oil, "exclusive of", Petroleum, Process Oil and Synthetic.

Gerhard

Additive

An agent used for imparting new, or for improving existing characteristics of lubricating oils or greases.

Base Oil

A base oil is a base stock or blend of base stocks used in engine oil, gear oil or ATF.

Base Stock

A base stock is a mineral hydrocarbon or synthetic lubricant component that is produced by a single manufacturer (independent of crude source or manufacturing location), that meets the same manufacturer’s specification, and that is identified by a unique formula, product identification number, or both.

Carrier Oil

Oil (Petroleum), usually solvent neutral or process oil, used to "carry" or dissolve and/or disperse additives, which would otherwise be too viscous or even solid, and therefore not easily mixed with the Base Stock Oil.

"exclusive of"

preposition

Not containing, devoid off, except for

Not including or considering

Petroleum

Petroleum = From Latin Petra (Rock) and Oleum (Oil) therefore meaning "Rock Oil" the term is commonly used to describe products made from "Crude Oil".

Process oil

Oil not used for lubrication, but as a component of another materiel, or as a carrier of other products, such as additives.

Synthetic

Of, involving, or using synthesis

Produced by synthesis; specially: produced by chemical synthesis, rather than of natural origin

Not real or genuine; artificial [synthetic lubricant]

Something synthetic; specially, a substance produced by chemical synthesis

Man-made, not occurring in nature

[French synthétique < Greek synthetikos]

Synthetic oils

Oils produced by synthesis (chemical reaction) rather than by extraction or refinement.



Patience, please, the ultimate truth will be revealed soon!



Read the definitions several times and try to understand!

OK here is the reasoning for:



" 100 % Synthetic, exclusive of carrier oil ".



The "100% Synthetic" relates to the Base Oil or Base Stock, it and only it (the Base Stock) is synthetically made. In case of Mobil 1, it was originally PAO (Poly-alpha-olefin).

The "exclusive of carrier oil" means in English that the Carrier or the Process Oil that is used to "carry" the additives is not synthetic oil and therefore, the final product (Motor Oil)
is NOT 100% Synthetic, even though the Base Oil is 100% Synthetic.



GOT THAT ?



Well then, what does Mobil (now ExxonMobil) have to say about that ?

Q: Is Mobil 1 a fully synthetic oil?

Yes, it’s 100% synthetic. The base stocks used in blending Mobil 1 are all "chemically constructed" instead of being simply segregated out of crude oil like conventional mineral oils.

Q: Then why does it say it contains a petroleum carrier for additives?

All motor oils contain additives that provide extra protection against wear, corrosion and engine deposits. These additives are usually high molecular weight materials – sometimes even solids. Conventional carrier oil is used to make these additives soluble. All motor oils will contain some of this carrier oil, usually only amounting to a small percentage of the finished product.



Source of above Questions and Answers is www.mobil,com and Mobil 1 promotional literature from 1999.



AHA !!!



Are you clear on the subject NOW?

Perhaps a small question still lurks on your mind, how small a "small percentage" is?

Well, for that we have to go to a company like Infineum that produces the additive packages such a PARANOX 5043 and PARANOX 5510 for synthetic lubricants.

The active ingredients are 1.94% to 4.07% by Mass (weight) the balance is Petroleum Oil.

That is about 98% or 96% of the "Additive Package" in ready to blend form is Petroleum Oil.

The recommended treat rate for FULLY FORMULATED lubricant (Motor Oil) is 10 to 20% of the finished product.

NOW for you MATH WIZARDS:

If 100% of the Base Oil is 100% Synthetic;

If 98% to 96% of the "Additive Package is Petroleum";

If 10 to 20% of the finished product is the Additive Package;

Then, how many % of Petroleum and how many % of Synthetic are in the finished Motor Oil?



SOLUTION:

When the treat rate is 10% and the Additive Package contains 2% of active ingredients,
then the finished product will be 90% Synthetic with 9.8% Petroleum and 0.2% of additives.

When the treat rate is 20% and the Additive Package contains 4% of the active ingredients,
then the finished product will be 80% Synthetic with 19.2% Petroleum and 0.8% of additives.



The "small percentage" (according to Mobil) is 9.8% to 19.2%.

Many investors would be thrilled to get such a "small percentage" return on their money !!

(Just for the record, the average dividends for Mobil and Exxon over last 20 years have been in 2% to 4% range, and they jointly term this as "significant" return on Shareholders’ Equity in their Annual Reports).

Gerhard

OK then "100% Synthetic Motor Oil" is not really "100% Synthetic Motor Oil", but it is perfectly OK to say that it is 100% Synthetic Motor Oil, because the Base Stock is 100% Synthetic and that is what you really mean when the Motor Oil contains as much as 20% of Petroleum, because the Petroleum is not the Base Oil but the Carrier Oil for the Additives !!!

Now if YOU do not understand that, as most people do not, well that is just way too bad.

After all you just might not be willing to pay so much more for Synthetic Motor Oil if you knew it was not "100% Synthetic", or would you ?

Well, you probably are (paying too much)!





Almost Synthetic is Synthetic even when it is Petroleum.

Well, if you think that Mobil or (ExxonMobil now) is less than honest, or even down right deceptive, that is not the worst of it.

Many other brands of Synthetics (Shell, Castrol, Amsoil, etc.) are NOT fully "synthetic" at all, at least by the definition used for years by chemists in all chemical companies around the World.

Some years ago SHELL in Europe and specifically in then West Germany introduced Motor Oils that were manufactured from UHVI Petroleum Base stock that although made from conventional crude oil, was subjected to additional processing not common on "normal" or "typical" Base Oil production. These (UHVI = Ultra High Viscosity Index) Base Stock containing Motor Oils were labeled by SHELL as "Synthetic".

Companies like MOTUL, MOBIL, AGIP in their respective markets did not like that labeling one bit, because the SHELL "synthetic" products were sold for substantially less then their own Brands of "Synthetic" Labeled products.

So years of lawsuits court orders, appeals, contra-suits clogged the courts of several European countries. At different times and in different countries contrary decisions or judgements were made. What was "synthetic" in one country on one day was "not synthetic" in another country at the same time. A real confusion for a region of globe that aimed to "unify" in the near future and become one great continent of "EURO".

What finally evolved from all this confusion was that the label term "Synthetic" is a marketing term, and therefore it is up to the "marketer" of the oil, to define what "synthetic" is.

AHA !!!

So now anytime you subject conventional petroleum oil to any unconventional process or reaction, irrespective of if it works (improves) or not the Base Oil, you can for all practical purposes call it "synthetic" i.e., Man-made.

SAE which had in its lubricant specifications not only definitions of what constitutes a "synthetic" but also a list of specific chemicals used as lubricants that were considered "synthetic".

Although SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) is US based organization, it aims at Global reach, and having one standard in the USA and yet another in most of Europe was deemed as bad as having English and Metric standards of measurements (at the same time).

The decision was made to go along with Europe (after all Metric is better), and as a result all reference to "synthetic" in respect to lubricants was deleted from ALL future SAE publications of SAE Standards relating to Lubricants.

Since SAE is a non-profit organization of Engineers, it had no desire nor financial might to involve itself in never ending lawsuits with mighty oil and chemical companies, so the simple "deletion" of all references to "synthetic" was perhaps the best and easiest decision.

When opportunity is there, it is only natural that some one will seize it.

It was CASTROL with their Syntec® Synthetic Motor Oil, which when first introduced up until December 1997 it was formulated with PAO sourced from Mobil.

In January 1998 CASTROL started to use much cheaper hydroprocessed petroleum base oils from SHELL. Mobil lost the opportunity to sell PAO to CASTROL.

Mobil Oil complained to National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus, which in April 1999 finally ruled in CASTROL favor, specifically allowing Syntec® Motor Oil made from SHELL XHVI slack wax stream to be sold and promoted as "synthetic".

To celebrate the victory, CASTROL Company spokesperson said:

"CASTROL is proud to be a major worldwide provider of synthetic formulated lubricants, and looks forward to continued participation in this exciting market. CASTROL is committed to upgrading its products and producing the highest quality synthetic engine oils. We will continue to explore ways to ensure that Syntec® remains a leading performer in the synthetic category"

WOW, someone missed their calling to be a Politician !!!

So now "synthetic" can be marketed as "synthetic" even if it is not a "synthetic"!

A slight clue that as good as "synthetic" is really not all that good, can be found on www.castrol.com , when the recommended oil change interval for CASTROL Syntec® Fully Synthetic Motor Oil is: 3,000 miles or 3 months – just the same as for ordinary conventional Petroleum Motor Oil.

A PENNZOIL with PENNZANE® is not any better and PENNZOIL claims are downright deceptive. The PENNZANE® which is touted as "developed for and used by NASA" has bee actually developed for used in vacuum pumps, and computer drives. It was never intended for or ever used in any engine! PENNZANE® in its pure form costs about $400.00 per US quarts.
It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that in the Consumer version of the "synthetic" motor oil that sells for under $4.00 there is about a drop of PENNZANE® in 5 Gallons !

The Back Label of PENNZOIL "Synthetic" with PENNZANE® also instructs the user to: "change motor oil EVERY 3,000 miles for best performance" !

Why then it costs four times as much conventional Petroleum Motor Oil if it is not all that much better, and definitely does not last in service any longer?

Someone has to PAY for the "synthetic" on the label, even if the content is not "synthetic".





The SynLubeâ„¢ Difference

So now that you know the thick and thin of "synthetic", perhaps you finally could and would appreciate the 100% Synthetic Colloidal Super Lubricants from SynLube, Inc.

SynLube Lube-4-Life Lubricants are TOTALLY FULLY 100% Synthetic,
no asterisks, no disclaimers, no excuses, no nonsense, no fine print
– 100% really means 100%.
The Five different Base Oils that are blended together are all 100% Man-made Synthetics.
The Three colloidal solid lubricants are 100% Man-made Synthetics .
The various additives that are incorporated into the final SynLube™ Lube-4-Life ® products are all 100% Man-made Synthetics all directly blended into the synthetic Base Oils, without the use of ANY Petroleum Carrier Oil or Process Oils.




Conclusion

Perhaps in Y2K being honest and truthful is an old-fashioned and obsolete business ethic, but that’s how we at SynLube, Inc. have been doing business ever since 1969.

No we are not the "First" and we are not the "Biggest" when it comes to lubricants, but being what we are, when it comes to lubrication, we are and can afford to be the "Best in the Solar System, not just the Earth".

And NOW - it is up to YOU the consumer and the vehicle owner or operator.

With every penny that you spend you vote for the product that you ultimately buy and use.

You have the final choice to support products that are NOT what they say or claim, you can promote false advertising, or you can choose the very best, that in the long run cost less to use, than the mediocre.

tastyratz

wow. they seem to have me convinced. this is a beaten topic though but if its all true then i learned some new things

__________________
2000 prelude base i/h/fly
90 240sx ka-t
95 240sx ka-t
love my toys

Gerhard

That's kinda what I was thinking... I'll get a few more folks to check this out...

solojam

Gerhard is nuts, brilliant but nuts.

Speedraycer

that was interesting... now who's gonna try this stuff and/ or where do you get it? I'll guinea pig it but i need it soon... 2 wks till next change...

oh yeah... what the best filter...

j/k

www.ntpog.com

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shik0me

If that's true, it's good information. Very hard to find it in all the BS though. That paragraph on "LIGHT" could have been done in two sentences.

Thanks for finding that Gerhard. Any info on how much their oil is, or where to get it?

__________________

XBOX Live: ials

5150

hmm yeah, i need an oil change in like 3 days, i'd wanna try it out!

__________________
-5150
'97 base//nordic mist ~ 1/8 - 10.323 @ 69.317
"its so dark . . . perfect . . ."

Gerhard

ntpog has it right: get the AMSOIL SDF-44 or the Mobil 1 M-105...

Fits perfectly...


As for that oil, I'm not going to try it. I thought he had some interesting points, but AMSOIL is working just fine for me...

Why change??

Gerhard

BTW:

There are many factors to how good a motor oil is. The most important factor to compare is how good that additive package is.

Mobil 1, RedLine, AMSOIL, all have superior additive packages.

I posted this article in order to point out that many oils call themselves synthetic, but are really not in the classic sense.

I think the guy makes that point clear.

As to if his product is any good... who knows?