I have posted past threads on the Electronic Cut Off system (ECS), and I didn't get much input or "real" answers on it. I got some shiet like there was not enough back pressure when it was open header so it lost alot of low and mid power. I heard things like it was not a good application unless you are turbo'd or have a built motor, and some other stuff. But I really don't feel like being ignant of the ECS, so...
1. Has anyone ever looked into or have the ECS system on their car with proven gains?
2. Are there any dyno sheets I can look at with open header
3. There seems to be three ways of applying the ECS
i. before the cat with modification
ii. in place of the cat
iii. after the cat with modification
which one would be best?
I am really considering the ECS to complete my exhaust system, and some reasons why I want it is because it "may" add much more power than a normal cat-back exhaust, turns on and off so no dealing with roars while driving/open header system from flip of a switch, and it might sound deadly.
UPDATE: Also since it is a Y-pipe figure, it won't lose ALOT of back pressure since most of the gases will go out through the ECS, but some gases will still travel down the normal route.
__________________ derick
Last edited by BLACKISWHACK : 05-30-2005 at 08:34 PM.
Theres no point for doing anything unless you goto the strip regularly or race competitively, but people still put turbos, intake, exhaust and headers on.
Do you think it will be smarter to just put it after the cat, and later on add a hiflowcat?
It would be better to put it before the cat, even if you put a high flow cat on. I think what shark meant was that you prolly wont see more than MAYBE 5hp gain using an electric cutout compaired to a decent cat back exhaust. What you will gain is about 10db!
Well, with that 5hp gain compared to other exhausts, it is relatively the same or maybe more horsies. The convenience of quiet stock exhaust to the "10db" exhaust open header seems pretty powerful to me.
As some more researching on PreludePower.com, the low RPM will probably lose power due to my mugen header to straight to open header, and my high RPM (vtec and higher) will probably have good gains. What I said there is myth of back-pressure, and from logical point of view, it sounds very true.
But if you're considering racing in a line, getting up to high RPMs do not take too long especially in first and second gear. Hopefully I can get this soon and get my little girl dyno'd and show you guys some results.
I plan to have "interchangeable" CAT/ECS, it is kind of hard to explain, but I will try to anyways. Since I do not know if the backpressure myth is true on our cars, I will try to have the CAT and the ECS/YPIPE interchangeable, for example, I can do this:
1. mugen header -> ECS/Ypipe -> CAT
or
2. mugen header -> CAT -> ECS/Ypipe
This will allow me to try out the back pressure theory. Hopefully I can use this interchangeable idea to replace the ECS/Ypipe with the stock piping to fool emissions, etc.
This reminds me, I bought a "Carb legal" plate from a DC sports header to put on my Mugen
Let me know what you guys think of my plans, this will be my next mod (hopefully).
PM dvsracergirl, she'll tell you what kind of gains they have seen with their Blacktrax ECS, and she won't bull**** you.
The reason I don't think this is a good street mod is because when the ECS is open it will be ridiculously loud. It's not something I would want to use day to day on a daily driver.
I am definitely not trying to rice around and leave it on all the time. The major reason I am considering it is because I can shut it the hell up whenever I want, and then when I need it in race mode, I fip the switch or push the button, etc.
In the past I called Blacktrax and the person who answered the phone said that on application to a lude, the ECS system was 5whp after the cat and 10whp before the cat. But I did not know who was on the phone, but it was a girl.
So adding an opening will affect the negative expansion wave but if you put it before/at the cat you will also have the benefit of reducing the back pressure as much as possible. According to grassroots motorsports magazine, each psi of back pressure will reduce engine output by about 2% but will get progressively worse with bigger cams. At what point having another negative pressure wave (bad for peak output) is outweighed by less back pressure is a good question and I have no idea what the answer is!!
In the past I called Blacktrax and the person who answered the phone said that on application to a lude, the ECS system was 5whp after the cat and 10whp before the cat. But I did not know who was on the phone, but it was a girl.
PM dvsracergirl, she is a member here, she'll tell you all you need to know about the ECS. I think she made a bit more with the ECS open on her car, but this was without a cat, and with her race motor If memory serves me, they will not install it before the cat because that would require modifying your header.
I am definitely not trying to rice around and leave it on all the time. The major reason I am considering it is because I can shut it the hell up whenever I want, and then when I need it in race mode, I fip the switch or push the button, etc.
In the past I called Blacktrax and the person who answered the phone said that on application to a lude, the ECS system was 5whp after the cat and 10whp before the cat. But I did not know who was on the phone, but it was a girl.
If the cutout is electronic, then what you want to do is wire up the cutout to turn on the same time that the IAB solenoid engages (or VTEC, same concept). That way you get the most benefit at high RPM and keep your torque down low.
The problem that you haven't addressed yet is tuning. Running an open header will make an otherwise well-tuned motor run lean. This is especially true with a stock ECU. You are going to need a different engine tune when the cutout is open.
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I have a blacktrax Y pipe with out the ECS. I manually open mine and it runs open header. I made only 2.6 more WHP with my Y pipe open on 10 pounds. Then again, we ran into problems with the turbo ... I will dyno again when I get my new one in and post up dynos with it closed and open. Turbo goes in on the 20th so give me till the end of next month.
You'll get a large gain with everything on your turbo setup working properly. Obviously, results on a turbo setup aren't going to help Derick decide if this is right for his stock motor.
I was thinking of the same thing when my VTEC engages, my ECS will open so I can keep my low end torque.
I was also thinking about the tuning of open header. Is there any engine management that supports two settings, so I can have a setting for non-open header and one setting for open header?
Or does anyone just recommend tuning with open header, and somehow "turn off" the engine management or just deal with daily driving with the tuned-open-header system
Might be confusing, VR6 Trader, you have been PM'd, I have been trying to reach you on BAP, but no response. I wanted to the buy the ECS about 3 months or so ago also from you.
NEW INFO GUYS
My friend's friend just got a ECS system on his newer gen Si. He dyno'd it and he said he got 27 more lbs of torque when it was open. He is running a test pipe.
He said it sounds good in VTEC, I think it sounds deadly, and its very illegal
What do you guys think? He said when you floor it from a stop, it doesn't do much, but once VTEC kicks in, its a beast.
Here, try this before you keep wigging out from over thinking this entire thing. Get under the car, remove the 3 bolts after the cat where your exhaust hooks up to it. Then get any random bolt that you can find, throw a few nuts onto it (to space out the cat and exhaust to become "free flow") and drive around real quick. If you think the gains are worth it, do it. If you don't, don't... In the end unless you get a nice exhaust system that's custom built you're always going to see gains though the ECS. If you're going to run test pipe though it's going to be MUCH louder than what you hear w/ the cat installed. Though just so you know, N/A 4 bangers are probably one of the LOUDEST engines that you'll hear unmuffled.
ive always wanted to get that blacktrax thing and have 2 exhausts....one exhaust is the stock exhaust, and the other exhaust would be a testpipe/aftermarket exhaust at 2.5'.
but yeah, not practical AT ALL, just a cool idea if it was practical.
well i was thinkin since you wanna rig the cutout to open when vtech engages id say get some fuel management and tune it as you would regulary just close regular exhaust on primary lobe then when vtec opens its diff fuel and timimg and such so its all the same tune its late and im tired but hopefully this makes some kind of scence summin it up one tune just reg then open cutout for vtec tune
Jesse, youre right. it takes about 3 seconds for the ECS to open.
Dave: youre right....i did make 21whp with my ECS open. i have stock exhaust piping and i replaced my cat with the Blacktrax ECS...i welded flanges onto it so that i can just unbolt it for smog purposes when the time comes . on average the gains after the cat are 5-10whp. depending on your set up and exhaust/header combo. my motor is a hi-comp race engine so it REALLY needed to breathe.
we will not install the ECS before the cat because there is no room because of the oil pan on the ludes(besides i know i wouldnt want to hack up my mugen header yer nuts Derick). We can remove the cat and install the ECS in place of the cat, we can put the ECS after the cat or we can custom fit and mod everything to make it before the cat.
Jeff didnt make much power with or without his ECS because his turbo just wasnt powerfull enuff to produce the power we were all hoping for. Stay tuned for the upgrade and hopefully after the 20th well have some time slips (CMI) and Dyno #s.
ill have to look back thru the dyno sheets to see what the other turbos gained with ECS.
but right after the cat before the resonator there is about a 6 inch piping in between the two, and if we use those 6 approx inches to move the cat back, we can slip a portion of the ypipe in between the extra space after the downpipe and before the cat. This way we wont need any new piping, but maybe just flanges.
just get an SH header....is there enough room on it to put the cutout right before the cat?? i know that the SH header downpipe is longer because i bought a catback exhaust for an SH and when i tried to put it on, it was too short. (it wasn't listed that it was for the SH).
at any rate...i had to drive around with an 'open' cat. damn, it's loud. i like the way it sounds, tho. in fact, after driving like that and realizing some kind of gain with the butt dyno, i decided i wanted to get the Cutout and do exactly what you are going to do.
i may actually keep the 2.5" catback on the car and the stock cat and find a way to put a cutout on before the cat.
definitely would look into something along the lines of a switch to open at a certain point. even so, you're not gonna need low end for more than a lil bit if you're just draggin.
lol..i wanted it so i could open it and scare ppl that piss me off on the road. hahaha...
at any rate....i'm curious to see if you can make it work. i'm definitely going to get one for my 90 Celica Alltrac (turbo). that's IF i can get the damn thing running decently. lol
Yeah, I'm REALLY trying to have to set up before the cat. If not, I may just have it take the place of the cat. I will let everyone know on my experience with it.
but right after the cat before the resonator there is about a 6 inch piping in between the two, and if we use those 6 approx inches to move the cat back, we can slip a portion of the ypipe in between the extra space after the downpipe and before the cat. This way we wont need any new piping, but maybe just flanges.
But then you have to extend all the o2 sensor wires.
Why not put in a highflow cat, and the ECS behind it?
haha i had this when i moved the car once without an exhaust (i was putting my rs*r on and had to move out onto the drive way. DAMN it was loud, just revving it a little to ingage the clutch was loud!
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JDM euro-r h22a, aem v2, greddy header, rs*r exhaust, p28 s100 chipped (and not tuned properly but whatever)
Name: Chris Aim: rentien
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If memory serves me, they will not install it before the cat because that would require modifying your header.
. on average the gains after the cat are 5-10whp. depending on your set up and exhaust/header combo. my motor is a hi-comp race engine so it REALLY needed to breathe. 
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